Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:54:01 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #171 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. re: Guro Steve Lamade armed and unarmed (rob mulligan) 2. Re: empty hand vs. knife (lakanmdb@aol.com) 3. 3AM in the Bronx (Marc Denny) 4. Re: Bar=Society (Buz Grover) 5. Twilight Zone (Marc Denny) 6. RE: Kinamutai (braulio agudelo) 7. re: knife training (Patrick Davies) 8. Pavel's videos (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 9. Bite (Khalkee@netscape.net) 10. RE: Kinamutai (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:23:04 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Guro Steve Lamade armed and unarmed Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bravo Guro Steve.  The best and most thought out post on this subject yet, it should be printed and hung in every martial arts school in the country.                            Guro Rob Mulligan                       ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:44:54 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] empty hand vs. knife To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As Uncle Bill says in any kind of combat theres 1. God 2. Luck 3. Skill Pray or all 3 but 1 may save your ass. Mike B PTK SATX --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:04:51 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] 3AM in the Bronx Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Concerning carries, Francis wrote: > I do think of the area I am going > to. , , , So I guess the best advice I can give in this subject is to use > your BRAIN... Look at a situation and go from there. Exactly. The procedures and practices of some wholesome midwest town may be a tad different than a subway platform in the Bronx at 3:00AM. > I don't think that biting is at all relevant (sorta stupid even) in this day and age. While it may save your butt, its a little short-sighted considering what you could contract(AIDS, various forms of Hepatitis) from the blood of a stranger. > > -Steve Kohn If the biter is the one with cooties the calculations shift a bit , , , anyway, for those of us who have a policy of avoiding fights, any fight we are in was imposed upon us and probably is of a "must win" nature. Again the procedures and practices of a wholesome midwest town might be different than with a couple of crackheads on the hunt on a subway platform at 3:00AM in the wild reaches of the Bronx. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:10:45 -0400 From: Buz Grover Organization: George Mason University To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bar=Society Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hola, Professor Mik. ¿Que tal? It's been a while. You write in response to my statement "guess I see bars as a distillation, so to speak, of society as a whole" the following: > Ola Maestro Grover, what if most of society could never be found in a bar?:-) > For real? Then, by golly, we'd better buy 'em a drink. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not claiming bar hopping is a citizenship requirement or that taverns correlate directly with society as a whole. Rather, I think they are places where a lot of human behavior boiled down to its essence can be encountered and observed. I can think of many other places that fit the same bill: the kitchens I use to work in, the hotline I volunteered for, the concerts I worked drug rescue at, and so on. Bet most the folks who haven't stepped into a bar could also think of a place or two where naked pathologies and raw nobility is similarly condensed. Educational places, they. > > If you can't operate in one you'll have trouble in the other, > > whatever your carry habits are. > > Why? I've carried some kind of "tool" since adolescence, and in varied environements other than bars. > Just curious about your thinking (not wanting to make assumptions). Don't want to get too long winded here. Suffice to say if you can't eat in a cafeteria without annoying all the folks around you then you really don't want to test your social skills in a place where the locals are tossing back Jack Daniels. Same deal with folks whose inner demons emerge when they get a few in them; the demons are still there when they sober up. Both examples are predictive of future folly in my opinion. I'll elaborate offline if you'd like, but it'll likely turn into a term paper. A couple other points: my line "feel naked without a knife" has been cited a couple times of late. I'm talking Ken Onion Whirlwind here, not Cold Steel Magnum Tanto. Though I own my share of big chunks of steel, I leave the house with a folder or two close at hand, with which I for the most part battle shrink wrap, strapping tape, and sundry other packaging with. The legal ramifications of carrying a blade into a bar have also been mentioned. Don't want to recapitulate the concealed carry, legal, ethical, and so on threads that have dealt with aspects of the topic before. Suffice to say that between the extremes of being preemptively cryogenically frozen to ward off possible future law suits and walking into a bar ala Arnold with a GE minigun under one arm and an M 70 grenade launcher under the other there's gotta be room for a reasonably stable fellow to sip a Guinness with a folder in his pocket. Cheers, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:13:22 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Twilight Zone Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: While taking a walk on The Strand today (the path along the ocean) my wife saw a bird trying to eat a lizard. We have a pet lizard and she felt for the prospective dinner and so she scared the bird off. The lizard was well-dinged up by this point (tail missing and the stub showed that the missing tail was a replacement to begin with, etc) but she didn't want to leave it in the path where a bicycle/skateboard/skater/pedestrian would finish it off. Unwilling to use her hand, she touched it with her toe. It bit her and did not let go. By the time ten minutes had gone by, several bystanders had stopped to gather and offer humorous commentary and advice to either my wife or the lizard. She was unsure what to do. Then a man came and with nothing more than his presence cause the lizard to release and accept his hand. "How did you do that?" she asked as he walked away. The words came back, "I'm a Filipino snake handler." Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:14:13 -0700 (PDT) From: braulio agudelo Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Kinamutai To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In an all out fight, armed or unarmed, you don't ask someone to take a blood test first. If you're fighting for your life, bloods gonna flow. If its takes biting to survive, bite... Unless you are talking about a controlled environment with rules, etc. --- Mike Casto wrote: > But biting doesn't necessarily mean breaking the > skin or drawing blood. > Often the desired results (i.e.: breaking the hold, > creating an opening, > causing a distraction, etc.) can be achieved without > breaking the skin. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Musilat@aol.com [mailto:Musilat@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:23 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Kinamutai > > > I don't think that biting is at all relevant (sorta > stupid even) in this day > and age. While it may save your butt, its a little > short-sighted considering > what you could contract(AIDS, various forms of > Hepatitis) from the blood of > a stranger. > > -Steve Kohn > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:29:49 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] re: knife training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I work the knife more for the attributes than the actual need to knife fight. I say that having had many knives pulled out over a period of time on me. If it got pulled out right now then I would look for an 'equaliser' and I have had to use a bar stool once and closed the front door on the hand on another. The longer the barrier the better as far as im concerned although it needs to be easily manageable. In security work I used to identify the possibilities at each new location for that reason. When a knife is pulled out on you it's a different feeling than a fist fight/confrontation. You very much focus on the weapon and I found that my reaction also took in the surrounding environment quickly. I was looking for escapes. Fist fights can get tunnelled vision but I always found knives broadened that out. I suppose I don't think that after 20 odd years of MA training that I can necessarily beat a whole lot of people. Im lucky that people seem to by pass me on that agenda. If I was awarded a black belt yesterday then todays a new day. I can coach because I have been exposed to a large amount of material and trained it, but whether its tuned depends on my training regime and we all know how that gets disrupted. I have some very direct responses drilled for when trouble comes my way that keeps me quite comfortable in most situations but I don't think that because I train I have a double 0 in front of my name! ; ) and my pants are worn inside as im not superhuman. lol im about to start training some knife throwing but its in order to delve in and have a look, not to be something that will become part of my main arsenal. For weaponry I have a gunting that now makes me wonder if I will ever buy another folder again so complete do I find it fit for purpose. Not only does it allows me a moral choice but allows me to be able to change the degree of that choice in real time. I don't think I train enough with consideration to multiple attackers though. However, I do feel the best defence in situations is not to be there. Message: 15 From: "David Eke" I'm in full agreement. ......... Most on the list are experienced MAists and yet there was only one or two responses on how effective people think their unarmed against knife techniques are, why? Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 8 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:10:37 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pavel's videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Pavel Tatsouline's Martial Power videos.  I'm always > interested in learning new material for MA's and conditioning and I was > wondering if it was worth the almost $400 investment... > Having trained and been certified by Pavel Tsatsouline at his Kettlebell Bootcamp, I can tell you he is the real deal. You may want to attend a seminar with a Certified instructor and make your decision about the tapes after that. His material has a long lasting effect on your training. High quality. I highly recommend Pavel as a source of training knowledge. Tom Furman RKC Powerfactor71839@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:24:51 -0400 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bite Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net IMHO, direct biting with intent to cuse a change in someone's fight-game is likely to be severe enuf to guarantee broken skin, otherwise it probably ain't much of a bite. That being said, I still mention biting in teaching self protection to women ... but I emphasize that they should perhaps confine biting to -clothed- targets because bleeding is to be expected if we bite someone "for real." We don't have the sharp pointies like carnivores, but still, the skin is likely to break when we put enuf pressure on it to cause someone to pull away, etc. --- and if, for example, they pull away the bitten target before we disengage our dentures :-) their flesh is liable to be broken in the process. Blood-borne ills, ai-ya, who wants'em? OTOH, if the bite is to a clothed area and the barrier is "adequate" the bite can be torqued to tear before disengaging to avoid seepage and to move on to our next action(s). Make sense? Note: For those of you who teach women ... considering some attack scenarios, a good addition to their arsenal is the word "Bite!" to cause a halt/disengage/moment of opportunity to attack/etc. Think about it :-) It doesn't take much to move someone's mind sometimes. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Kinamutai Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:07:24 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Couldn't agree more. If my choices are: (a) die now (b) possibly die in 10 years I'm gonna chose (b) every time :-) Mike -----Original Message----- From: braulio agudelo [mailto:sika@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:14 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Kinamutai In an all out fight, armed or unarmed, you don't ask someone to take a blood test first. If you're fighting for your life, bloods gonna flow. If its takes biting to survive, bite... Unless you are talking about a controlled environment with rules, etc. --- Mike Casto wrote: > But biting doesn't necessarily mean breaking the > skin or drawing blood. > Often the desired results (i.e.: breaking the hold, > creating an opening, > causing a distraction, etc.) can be achieved without > breaking the skin. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Musilat@aol.com [mailto:Musilat@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:23 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Kinamutai > > > I don't think that biting is at all relevant (sorta > stupid even) in this day > and age. While it may save your butt, its a little > short-sighted considering > what you could contract(AIDS, various forms of > Hepatitis) from the blood of > a stranger. > > -Steve Kohn > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest