Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 16:40:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #173 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Getting a bite of reality (Q) 2. Re: checking hand (Patrick Davies) 3. RE: biting (Patrick Davies) 4. RE: Re: checking hand (Mike Casto) 5. FMAmag (Arnis Balite) 6. Re: Re: checking hand (Ray Terry) 7. RE: Gunting vs. Karambit (Martin Diggins) 8. FMA in San Mateo area? (Marc Denny) 9. Re: FMA in San Mateo area? (Ray Terry) 10. re: knife training (Jeff Harris) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:39:21 -0700 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Getting a bite of reality Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Someone wrote: > I don't think that biting is at all relevant (sorta stupid even) in this day and age. While it may save your butt, its a little short-sighted considering what you could contract(AIDS, various forms of Hepatitis) from the blood of a stranger. > So here are some facts. 1) you can bite to the point of ripping flesh and cause bleeding. 2) any normal biter is more likely to cause an infection in the bitee than get one himself. 3) any normal biter with forgein stuff in his mouth would likely do the multiple spit thing and better yet in the face of the bitee as an additional distraction 4) the mouth is a mostly sealed system with wet skin as a barrier similar to but more permeable than the skin on your arm. We have all gotten each others blood on each other if you have spent anytime in the MA's. 5) anything swollowed is more likely to be denatured by stomach acid than infective to the biter. 6) contact time with a sufficient toxic load is reduced to nearly nothing by simply spitting out. We all know about hookers etal with syphilis in the throat but things like that are from repeated and or longterm exposure to an effective agent. It is very unlikely that a biter would be relishing the flavor rolling the forgien matter around his mouth thereby increasing time with an infective agent. I bite is not sexual contact resulting in a sexually transmitted disease. 7) the saliva is protective with immunoglobulins buffering agents etc which further reduce infection potential. In fact the AIDS virus is difficult to find in the mouth and is in substantially less numbers than in a blood stream mostly due to oral biology. 8) blood borne disease is transmitted via blood to blood contact. Oral cavity saliva is not blood to blood. While transmission is possible it is unlikely. Even 90% of AIDS tainted medical neddle sticks are negative for viral transmision! Now that is amazing. 9) For infection transmission you have to have a possible vehicle for tranmission, enough viral load, exposure for sufficiant time, and a susseptible host. Here is another example of how tough the mouth is. Before the AIDS crisis 20 years ago dental drills were not sterilized. Result..no one got sick. Before dental unit check valves, short hoses and bottled water huge numbers of bacteria were in dental water supplies. Result...no one got sick. 1990's almost all dentist used Sporicidin to kill germs because the Hospitals used it. The FDA found it did not work and quickly yanked it off the market. Result...no one got sick. So can you get an infection? Yes! Is it likely I don't think so. There was once a Silat guy who used to say "I can bite my way out of any lock" While I have never tested the theory the bite is likely to be an effective tool. regards, carl Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 603-710-6393fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:40:28 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: checking hand Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Judo36@aol.com your checking hand could be used for striking as wall as trapping. Wasn't it La Coste who said that the most dangerous weapon was the 'other hand'. I take it that the checking hand is not only a safety checker after a stick deflection, it's an anchor to know where that hand goes but its also training the ability to not become single sided. The application of the checking hand for stripping, monitoring and striking is a balance in the equation to counter the testosterone single mindedness of single stick application. We use it to highlight proper body mechanics and comes in its own in the sumbrada type drilling. Imho, its to keep the body reminded that its in the equation and that in itself it's a potent weapon. Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Patrick Davies To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:57:55 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: biting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In my (minimal) experience, the bite rarely breaks the skin unless the bite is direct to the skin. Most bites may take place through clothing and cause a pinching effect. This led us to avoid certain headlock holds preferring to bring the arm through as a buffer between the head and rib. I have met one guy who was very skilled at biting ears off. He wasn't a fighter but would get himself in all sorts of trouble. He professed to be skilled at jumping up and attaching his teeth to the ear lobe and holding on. This type of characteristic put him in a social position that most don't like to go as the majority of male violence seems to be about marking ones territory. For what its worth I heard someone stabbed him a couple of years back although he survived in order to get drug dependent. Guess he met someone of his ilk. For womens self defence, the biting question concerning health issues is a bit questionable when considering rape is it not? pd --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: checking hand Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:15:48 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net And I believe it was Floro Villabrille who won a lot of his "stick" fights with his left hook. They'd be so concerned with defending themselves from his stick that they wouldn't even see the left hook coming and they'd get KO'd. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Davies [mailto:Patrick.Davies@subsea7.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:40 AM To: 'eskrima digest' Subject: [Eskrima] Re: checking hand From: Judo36@aol.com your checking hand could be used for striking as wall as trapping. Wasn't it La Coste who said that the most dangerous weapon was the 'other hand'. I take it that the checking hand is not only a safety checker after a stick deflection, it's an anchor to know where that hand goes but its also training the ability to not become single sided. The application of the checking hand for stripping, monitoring and striking is a balance in the equation to counter the testosterone single mindedness of single stick application. We use it to highlight proper body mechanics and comes in its own in the sumbrada type drilling. Imho, its to keep the body reminded that its in the equation and that in itself it's a potent weapon. Pat Davies _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Arnis Balite" To: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 06:30:09 -0700 Organization: Arnis Balite Subject: [Eskrima] FMAmag Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Information: as per the publisher if you paid for 6 issues you get six issues. He has had some problems, but hopefully the magazine will get back on track. This issue Vol5 #1 is at the printers and is a tribute to Grandmaster Leo M. Giron I was told. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: checking hand To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 06:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > And I believe it was Floro Villabrille who won a lot of his "stick" fights > with his left hook. They'd be so concerned with defending themselves from > his stick that they wouldn't even see the left hook coming and they'd get > KO'd. A low to mid-line kick coming in under a stick strike very frequently works well, too... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Martin Diggins" To: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:38:03 +0100 Organization: Codico Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Gunting vs. Karambit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Anybody had the chance to compare the effectiveness of the Sypderco Gunting and the Emerson Combat Karambit for personal defence purposes ? In particular, I'm interested in ease/speed of deployment. Regards, Martin --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:11:14 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in San Mateo area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Marc Braiverman has asked for info about any FMA schools/training in the San Mateo area (Bay area CA) yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA in San Mateo area? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nmbraiverman@usinternet.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Marc Braiverman has asked for info about any > FMA schools/training in the San Mateo area (Bay area CA) fyi, San Mateo is ~30 north of San Jose. It is also ~20 south of San Francisco. So anything in those areas is perhaps also acceptable to Marc. Jon Ward teaches in the San Jose area. I also teach in the San Jose area. There are probably others, too. The FMA Instructor database may have a few listed for the area. Good luck! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jeff Harris" To: Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] re: knife training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarding this from my Modern Arnis teacher: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ These are some of the most interesting fighting questions: the "kinfe fight," and the barehand defense against the knife. Notice that the respondent who claimed experience in such encounters used 1 - a chair or bar stool, and 2 - slammed a door on the offending limb. Bravo! -- for practicality. Not much said re anyone's experience with the "caught flat-footed" scenario, that is, no doors, no knife, and no expedient weaponry (like bar stools) handy. This one is the bitch. One of the useful and enduring lessons I retained from military combat training is termed "field expediency." That is, simply, use what ya got at hand. You always have assets, even if only your body mass, gravity, distance, hand speed, physical momentum, and programmed responses. Really, this is quite a toolkit. With a certain level of realistic martial arts training in place, one should be able to use all of the above "attributes" that attend physical reality. Some of the best knife defense drills one can train with a partner is single sinawali/banda y banda (yin/yang) or perhaps the "I touch you with my spear hand and you die" drill. The first teaches a global parry system, the second an appreciation for the value of controlling distance.This implies dedicated footwork. If you can't control the distance, as in a total-surprise attack, you'd better be competent at shift/pass/parry. This implies handspeed.Then you'd better get your eyejab/ neck attack/Thai kick/drop sweep followup going, at full throttle. Certainly, it's better if we can instantly pass the weapon hand/arm into a position to flow into a perfect limb grab, and then into a picture-perfect joint lock and takedown. Failing that, which is as likely as not, "flow-ability" means instantly going for a liver shot, a palm to the face, eye jab, or a punch to the neck along with a weight-committed rush into the target (charley-horse/momentum), allied with a functional check of the weapon limb. A check only has to "work" for a fraction of a second. For anyone who has reached the level of functional flowing, decent passing and checking skills open up multiple avenues for follow-ups. The difficult part, instantly following the defense, is the necessity for full-power, fight-stopping counters. That is is not to say you'll kill anyone, but you'd better be trying to. At least until they are down, and done. You need results now. Talk to anyone who's made the jump from no-contact "sparring" to full-contact "fighting," and you will find this change of emphasis is easier discussed, than accomplished. And realize we are thinking of an even bigger "jump." This jump is from the relative safety of a refereed, non-lethal contest (full contact) to the realities of do-or-die-in-the-dirt, animal behavior. Having been there, and done that, in the dirt of several Southeast Asian countries long ago (with guns, not knives), I can attest that there is really no way to train for facing the ultimate bad situation. Here's death in person, and right here, right now. Yes, there are ways to hardwire your body to react to certain situational possibilities. This is a good idea; the Filipino Arts do this better than any other I've encountered to date. Training with multiple partners, performing drills endlessly, past progressions into total unpredictability, is seemingly (to me) the most practical way to go, on the physically-functional level. If you can read this, you know reality levels that transcend the physical. These levels also apply. They only functionally apply, it so happens, after you have paid your physical dues. This means risking your life to pay the physical dues; secondarily, it means working the martial arts "basics" for years, and then decades. There is no free lunch, but lots of them for sale. My experience has been atypical in that I entered the "Martial Arts" by way of warfare. I was a combat soldier first, and entered classical studies later. So before my first Shorin Ryu training in Okinawa, some pretty basic realities of death-dealing were part of my teenage makeup. This does not qualify me as anything other than a realist. "Realistic" training, as I have told students, is probably best learned in the Special Forces. They will pay YOU to learn how, and spend serious time and assets in your training. Then you have to spend the rest of your life learning how to live with the results -- what you've turned into, and what you've perhaps "done." I am not convinced this is an avenue for positive growth in human potential, if you get my meaning. Moderation is the key, someone wrote long ago. The journey is more important than reaching the destination. In this particular instance, if the destination is obliterating another human being, just stay on the journey, and pray you never get there. Consider why you picked this path. Your time is finite and fleeting. Randy Fey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Jeffery (Jeff) Harris JLHOnami@mchsi.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest