Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:35:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #229 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Debunked Myth About Filipinos Not Being Banned From FMA by the Spaniards (Leo Salinel) 2. Re: 10 Myths of Martial Arts (jonbroster@another.co.uk) 3. Posts and Wooden Men in FMA (Brian Phillips) 4. Size matters! (Sword1969@aol.com) 5. Eskrima myth or truth? (Jesse Manibusan) 6. Doce Pares black belts in Van Nuys, CA (Ray Terry) 7. Training in Napa (Scott Shebby) 8. The Spanish colonizers "never" forbade Filipinos to practice MA? (NAVARRO FULBERT) 9. Dirty belts (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Debunked Myth About Filipinos Not Being Banned From FMA by the Spaniards Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Being a Filipino who lives here in the Philippines and who ACTUALLY studied and ACTUALLY has a passionate interest in my country's history, I think that debunked myth refers to the fact that it is very much possible, if not very very likely, that the FMA as we know them today became what they are largely due to the Spanish colonial government's need for them. I refer you guys to Dr. Ned Nepangue and Celestino Macachor's website at http://clix.to/decampo where Tinny Macachor discusses his theory--which is actually and honestly VERY SOUND and WELL ROOTED in historical documentation and observant common sense. The Spaniards had a "divide-and-rule" strategy of using Visayans and Tagalogs against each other during revolts as well as against the southern Muslims in Mindanao island. Thus, as a result the Spanish government came to DEPEND ON Filipino martial art skills with weapons, and the 200 or so years of Spanish dependence on the same against the Moros of Mindanao helped shape the FMA. To be honest, at the very first read I got of Tinny's essay, I was appalled by his ethnocentrism (he's a very die-hard Cebuano) but was impressed with his realistic and believable analysis of how FMA developed. A lot of the terms, the concepts, and other things were developed with the aid of the friars and the technical expertise of the Spaniards (of course building on an already pre-existing FMA bedrock of fighting skills and tactics). After the end of the expeditions against the Moros (around the mid 1800s when Spain decided to give up and decided to instead maintain a few outposts along Mindanao's northwestern coasts), the Christianized population of Visayas and Luzon still had to contend with the never-ending Moro piracy raids, for which the FMA which they honed as faithful foot soldiers of the Spanish colonial government against the Moros, found a new use--defending their villages against pirate raids. To this day, a lot of coastal towns in Luzon and the Visayas islands have abandoned belltowers and watchtowers which in recorded history were used to warn against the approach of pirates from Mindanao. In all honesty, this account by Dr. Nepangue and Tinny M. make a lot more sense than all the talk about "the mother art" which to this day, none of the anthropological scholars at the University of the Philippines (our very own harvard) can verify with documentation. ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:19:22 +0100 (BST) From: jonbroster@another.co.uk To: eskrima digest < eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] 10 Myths of Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, >> 2. “A big guy of good skill will always beat a small guy of good skill.“ I >> don't know that I agree with it. Logically speaking, if all other things are >> equal, why wouldn't the bigger guy prevail? > >I'd agree this is also a myth. Nothing mentioned about quickness, strength, >or desire. Give an advantage to one or taother in these areas and the >balance is probably tipped. This echoes a saying from Rugby League (which we play in Yorkshire, it is different from the more common kind of rugby) "A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un" ('un being Yorkshire for "one") I always felt, that all other thigs being equal, the bigger man will almost always do better. (In rugby or fighting) Jon There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife! http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster -- Personalised email by http://another.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:49:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Phillips To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Posts and Wooden Men in FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all, I train Arnis in VA Beach. Several of my classmates train their strikes/cuts on a wooden post, and report this is almost as effective as using heavy pipes for building power, speed, and shock resilence. I love my pipes and think a post (for rattan work) would be cool. I am planning to cook up one of these posts, but was interested to find out that Mr. Worden of Washington has a wing chun style dummy out that people use sticks on. Anyone on the list have any experiences/advice/feedback on wooden man training for FMA that they'd like to share? I only get maybe 4-6 hours of class time a week, my solo cuts are getting more solid, but if I could whip up something more responsive than a post to bang on whenever I have a spare moment it would be great. Suggestions? regards, Brian --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Sword1969@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:14:36 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Size matters! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > 1. "A black belt began as a white belt that turned dark with years of > > practice." This surprised me, as I liked the image behind this tale, but > > I guess it may have just been an urban legend. > > Yep. A myth. How do we know? And would it be bad to still use this story, even as an analogy, for beginners? It's too perfect of an example about hard training to just chuck it aside and say its not true. > > 2. "A big guy of good skill will always beat a small guy of good skill." > I > > don't know that I agree with it. Logically speaking, if all other things > are > > equal, why wouldn't the bigger guy prevail? > > I'd agree this is also a myth. Nothing mentioned about quickness, strength, > or desire. Give an advantage to one or taother in these areas and the > balance is probably tipped. I assumed that a person of "good skill" means well-developed attributes and not just technical proficiency. If they're equally accurate, fast, able to flow, able to take a hit, psychologically in tune, etc., then wouldn't size matter? Even if the bigger guy isn't necessarily stronger, his reach would at least be longer. Then again, maybe I shouldn't say anything. I'm a big guy and I get clocked all the time. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:15:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Manibusan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima myth or truth? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I heard a story about Spaniards using Eskrimadors to protect their outposts in their colonized lands. I heard that Eskrimadors were specifically used in Spanish America to protect Spaniards against American Indians. Is this true? Its fascinating but I really don't think its true and just wanted to know if anyone else hear this story too. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares black belts in Van Nuys, CA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net fyi... The workout/seminar/meeting of the Doce Pares Federation black belts is this Saturday, beginning at 10AM, at the House of Champions gym in Van Nuys, California. 1-818-996-7180 for more info. Gm Cacoy said that there will be a workout on Friday afternoon and then he will be teaching a seminar to the black belts on Saturday (6/28). You should be able to obtain more info by calling the above number. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:06:37 -0700 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Scott Shebby Subject: [Eskrima] Training in Napa Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi everyone! I just subscribed to this group so let me know if I'm out of line here. Ive recently relocated to Napa, California and am looking for a place to continue training in Kali. Any suggestions? Anyone want to train? -Scott --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: NAVARRO FULBERT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Spanish colonizers "never" forbade Filipinos to practice MA? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GREETINGS!!! I was quite surprised to read the last message posted here..."the spanish conquerors never forbade filipinos to practice martial arts..." Well, that's quite interesting because I happen to read some of the works of the spanish priests before (I just forgot the title of the books, anyway I'll try to find them...)and almost all of them agreed that the Filipinos should not learn practically "anything" (yes,that includes martial arts) in order to maintain the subservientness (correct me if the spelling is wrong)of the Filipinos to the spanish authorities...in other words, they want us Filipinos to stay stupid so as to put us under thier exclusive control. If some wise guy might think that "the spanish conquerors never forbade filipinos to practice martial arts" idea is correct, I think he should support it with researches or credible sources. On the other hand however it was also mentioned that the spanish authorities did not fobid filipinos to join in the spanish armed force which if I can recall correctly were called the Cazadores and the Guardia Civil but with racial discrimination ofcourse and provided that they maintain thier allegiance to the King of Spain. One of the reasons why they did not forbid the Filipinos from joining the military is because of thier "Divide and Conquer" strategy...they used Filipinos to kill fellow Filipinos and thus maintaining the weakness of Filipinos to unite arms under a single sovereign and expel them out of the country (this is actually evident untill today, one will still hear of news about Filipinos slaughtering each other in the battlefield). I hope I had made my point and at least had shed light to this matter... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Dirty belts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > 1. "A black belt began as a white belt that turned dark with years of > > > practice." This surprised me, as I liked the image behind this tale, but > > > I guess it may have just been an urban legend. > > > > Yep. A myth. > > How do we know? And would it be bad to still use this story, even as an > analogy, for beginners? It's too perfect of an example about hard training > to just chuck it aside and say its not true. It is a very easy one to research, see for yourself. One of those Urban Legends that just won't fade away. Best to come to your own conclusion of fact vs. fiction... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest