Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:13:04 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #261 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. re: Preserving The Legacy (Patrick Davies) 2. Re: cabales, villabare, illustrimo (Jeff Reynhout) 3. The Final Days of Remy Presas - Completion of Article (al sardinas) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:31:58 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Preserving The Legacy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Referring to Message: 4 From: "al sardinas" One point Master Somera made was that to practice escrima, one has to know every aspect of the art, not just the physical but also the spiritual, mental and cultural aspects. Would these be our own personal aspects or those that weighed in the development of the art? My initial thinking is our own personal, but I suppose to truly understand the art we have to take into consideration all the factors that influenced it. If the art was Muslim [insert any other relevant] orientated it will be difficult for my eyes to see some of its reasoning. Even my British eyes will not see the Filipino cultural bearing. For my own journey, the arts as taught by my instructors encourage the development of these attributes. With the diversity of the arts I have it would be impossible to fully investigate one art without giving up the essence of what I personally am aiming for at this point in my life. For that purpose, influenced by any research whether it be in the arts, in general life or from reading the likes of Jiddu Krishnamurti, I hopefully am understanding these attributes that will determine what the art becomes through me. Do we become the art or does the art evolve through us? I think Guro Inosanto also says something people don't always hear. He says that Bruce Lee encouraged him to look at his own culture and Guro has found his wealth there. Hearing this, I have been looking at my own culture rather than assuming that others hold more (the grass is greener) and am finding a lot more contentment. After all, peace can only happen if we find it within? Maybe, maybe not. But to be able to listen we have to b quiet within and not in conflict/turmoil. What do you think it means? Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:47:12 -0400 From: "Jeff Reynhout" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] cabales, villabare, illustrimo Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For anyone interested in comparing/contrasting different Filipino martial arts I can recommend Filipino Fighting Arts: Theory and Practice by Mark V. Wiley. I do not train in Filipino martial arts myself, but found the book both interesting and informative. Regards. -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:42:40 From: Rob Viglione To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: >hello, > could anyone compare or contrast the styles of >cabales,dizon, villabare,and illustrimo being they >traveled in the same circles(even if not all at the >same time)and worked out together. > >p.s. i'm not looking for a who was better than whom >arguement, just a technical comparison of similarities >and differences of there arts. > thanx,,, > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1600 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:13:53 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] The Final Days of Remy Presas - Completion of Article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First of all, thanks to Senior Master Dan Anderson for providing his insight on how the late great Grandmaster Presas desired that each top student continue the legacy of Modern Arnis. However, I would respectfully conclude that GM Presas would have wanted just one person to lead the entire Modern Arnis structure as he did while he was living. This is evident with his complaint as quoted in Datu Worden's article. In this respect, I want to thank Datu Worden for sending me a personal reply to my inquiry and granting me permision to post it. I feel that the information that Datu provided completes the article. Please see below.. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly S. Worden To: al sardinas Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:02 PM Subject: article Hey Al, I suppose I should send this to the e-digest but i will wait to see if others are interested,,, As you already know ModernArnis is taking a beating from the inside out,,, sad deal and yes Professor Remy was content to avoid establishing any leadership besides hi own,, by looking at the big picture he actually would eliminate senior positions about every 7 years or so,,, unless you maintained a silent follower status,,, many reasons including his departure from the P.I. By the way it is fine to address me as Kelly, the title is internal Modern Arnis and I am just a street guy who has been involved in the arts for over 35 years,,, In the July 2003 issue of CFW Enterprises Filipino Martial Arts magazine there is an article written by Datu Kelly S. Worden titled "The Final Days of Remy Presas". If possible, I will appreciate some clarification of this article. I'll try,,, Datu Worden quoted that the late Professor Presas complained that there were "so many skilled followers with no strength or time left to guide the destiny or leadership of the system". This is true, all running in independent directions... Datu also writes in one paragraph that Grandmaster Presas told his grandson Carlo that he is the heir and has the right to be groomed to be the next grandmaster of modern arnis and continue the Presas legacy. Yes there are also a couple sides to this story, Carlo did receive Professor's uniform which is a tradition al gesture of trust. Some will say it was a humorous statement , but there was nothing humorous about the family reunion in Victoria.. Carlo is very intelligent, young and skilled, the real potential for a continued Presas lineage is there. Sure there are some American's or European's who would like to step into the shoes of Remy Presas. But let's be honest we are not Filipino, our work should be a reflection of our cultural influences. We should all not jump up until all efforts are made to maintain a Filipino lineage and heritage. It is just becoming selfish efforts to ride a coat tail of Remy's hard lifelong sacrifices. In the final paragraph the article, it is stated that Grandmaster Presas asked his son Remy Jr. to continue the legacy. Professor already knew the system was divided in multiple directions, the Datus, the senior masters (most 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th degrees) of the Philippines who I consider the real keepers of the art. American Senior master Dan Anderson who has not done any direct work to create a independent leadership position, has joined Tim Hartman's organization. The Motts all 5th degrees and headed by Randi Shea, who have maintained silence and at least done some positive work in the IMAF inc. Remy trusted them to not get out of hand and they have not done so as of yet. Jeff Delaney a "questionable and shaky 5th degree at best" who has stepped off base with his claim to leadership, I was there with Professor when he told me that Jeff was to only finish some teaching assignments of seminars. Jeff and Randi shared Remy's trust in maintaining some form of organizational unity in the always fragmented IMAF. Jeff defied Remy's wishes and broke away only weeks after Professor's death. He has chosen to put his foot into a leadership position with no authority and only 8 years of Filipino m/arts to do so. A Grandmaster? How shameful! Very Sad and egotistical step for Jeff who has very little Modern Arnis support anywhere. The Presas children, headed by Remy Jr., do have the cultural right to step up and answer the call of their father's request. Professor Presas had asked Roland Dantes and I to oversee their martial arts education and support their efforts. I have done just that as well as support the Filipino lineage masters of Modern Arnis. Remy Jr. has made multiple trips to the Philippines to continue his education with Professor's long established early Filipino students, all highly skilled masters instructors. Remy Jr. whom is highly educated with two Doctrate degrees and one Master degree is well organized and his skill and martial arts presentation has improved dramatically in this last year. Demitrio is exceptionally talented and a fighter by spirit, I guarentee Demitrio is not the man to take lightly as some of the Modern Arnis players think "they are the game". Many people will be suprised if they only touch hands the younger brother, these men are Presas by blood and attitude, very much like their father, I say this in all honesty. People who have said they loved Professor yet disregard the direct Presas lineage connection are missing a connection to the teacher who embraced them. Although the Filipino masters and Presas family endorse me and recently promoted me to 7th degree my efforts are directed at making the Presas Lineage continue in the family name. A promotion I did not seek, ask for, or pay for, I was promoted by Remy A. Presas in 1988 to datu preceding all other Modern Arnis westerners for several years, that was always good enough for me. Currently the Presas family feel all practitioners in Modern Arnis are continuing the legacy of Remy A. Presas and wish all the best for those doing so in an honest forthright manner. Weather it is Remy Jr. or Carlo who step up into a groomed leadership position, only time will tell. In reality, I feel by appointing a transitional Grandmaster such as Rodel Dagooc 8th degree (Remy' longest and most loyal student) to oversee the system until an heir can be groomed for leadership, Modern Arnis could avoid alot of ego inflated crap currently splattered across the world, mostly U.S. So my questions are who did GM Presas picked to be at the helm, Carlo or Remy Jr. and does that leave out Grandmaster Jeffrey J. Delaney? I see his ad in all the martial art magazines stating that he is the designated successor. Professor grew weaker daily and no one confided in him that he would die,,, I was even warned by some not to say anything because it would depress him. Remy was to move in with my family in Tacoma, the day before I went to help him move he fell and was hospitalized for the last time, never released from care again, sad deal. In many ways he only could hope we would all fight over leadership and therefore although splintered we would force each other to seek higher skills and therefore elevate the art through dissention. He used the strategy constantly prior to his illness but when healthy he was able to deal the cards himself monitoring power plays and positional control, it worked only for him, and here we are now...Multiple leaders each capable to take Modern Arnis in diverse directions, multiple systems of the same art with unique differences. As you would understand there are alot more things behind this story, Datu David Hoffman is coming out with some very enlightening news in the near future, some of what he has to say is on my forum and the martial Talk forum. From what I know of David he is taking this from a different direction and is not a full time martial arts instructor therefore has not much reason to politically deal the cards or flavor his statements. One of the main reasons I wrote the article the way I did was to shock people into keeping their mouth shut and to clarify the family and Filipino positions in Modern Arnis,,, it is just not all American or German. Respectfully , Kelly S. Worden Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis Hope that helps Al, you are welcome to post it if you feel the need, Kelly --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11 End of Eskrima Digest