Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:17:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #297 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Legal question (Edge Wise) 2. Are eskrima sticks weapons? (Stephen Lamade) 3. Re: Legal question (Harold Evans) 4. Re: Legal question (garry) 5. Re: Legal question (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Legal question (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Legal question (Edge Wise) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Edge Wise" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:10:21 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just traveled to the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia and took my unbreakable clear acrylic 1" by 21" practice bastons in my carry on with no questions asked. Since they were not sharp objects, I did not think they could cause me much grief, besides making me check my bag (lost time). Given that they were clear sticks, I was prepared to tell them they were large decorative handles. At worst case I could claim they are exercise sticks. If its intended use is in the context of a weapon, then it can be considered a weapon. Now if I took one of those sticks and put a nice tight bicycle grip on one end as a handle, that would change the look and imply weapon to many. You could have a tactical umbrella, one with some weight and a sharp point masked with a plastic cap and that would not imply weapon to most. Like many things it is all in the eye of the beholder and depends if the Man want to mess with you or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question > > Are Kali bastons classified as weapons? If I have them in my car, or > > practice with them in the park am I opening myself up to leagl issues? > > > > I imagine that this differs from state to state, I am in Oklahoma, but I > > would like to know what the group's experience has been with this. > > You'll want to check your state's penal code for references to batons, > billyclubs, blackjacks, etc. But I suspect it is more likely to come > down to if you are causing a problem and they need a reason (or another > reason) to haul you in... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:13:12 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Are eskrima sticks weapons? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In response to your question, Ray Terry wrote: "...But I suspect it is more likely to come down to if you are causing a problem and they need a reason (or another reason) to haul you in..." This is true of any weapon, improvised or not, that you have in your possession. For example, my sub-4" folder may be legal, but a police officer can and will use it as a reason for arresting me depending on the circumstances. Generally the existence of a weapon is used as a further justification for an arrest which is already probable in the first place. Last year I was pulled over for a broken tail light and the officers were politely interested in the contents of my stick bag in the back seat. (They later explained that it looked like a gun bag.) The sticks inside were fairly heavy and it was obvious that they appreciated how they could be used as weapons, but my explanation that I was a martial arts student on my way to take a private lesson, coupled with the fact one of them was a martial arts student as well, kept things friendly and I was sent on my way. If you're concerned about carrying sticks in the car, one solution would be to carry them in a stick bag in the trunk of your car, along with a t-shirt with a FMA logo, and perhaps some other evidence (a book, a VHS tape, etc.) that you're a martial arts student. These, along with a polite attitude, should help out a lot. Best, Steve Lamade _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:16:53 -0400 From: Harold Evans To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In addition to Terry's input regarding the legal research required, please also contact your local parks and recreation department to see if they approve of "practicing" in their park. In my city, as long as you do not damage park property or are a nuisance, you have free use of the park. On a lighter side, I remember a story from the late Remy A. Presas of when he was practicing out west and a good officer of the law stopped him as he had two arnis sticks in his hands. The officer asked him what he was doing with them and instead of getting upset, the Professor used his quick wit and said, "They are are for dancing!!!" :>) God bless you Professor, Rest in Peace. Good luck for your practice sessions, I love practicing in the parks myself. Harold --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:41:28 -0700 (PDT) From: garry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In California. Any kind of stick under 36" is considered a concealed weapon. (I'm sure pencils don't fall into that catagory, but I don't remember the low end) Several years ago, some buddies and I were practicing Serrada in the college parking lot. A state marshall drove up, asked to see our sticks, and locked them in the trunk of his car. When one of my friends started getting belligerent, I asked about the details of the law. The marshall was nice enough to show me the exact text in his copy of the starte penal code. Another time, I got into trouble practicing in a local park. Moral of story? Transport your sticks in the trunk of your car, and practice away from the public. If you want a semi-legal weapon for your car, try an oversized screwdriver (the hefty 18" kind"). Guro Garry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > In California. Any kind of stick under 36" is considered a concealed > weapon. (I'm sure pencils don't fall into that catagory, but I don't > remember the low end) Several years ago, some buddies and I were > practicing Serrada in the college parking lot. A state marshall drove > up, asked to see our sticks, and locked them in the trunk of his car. > When one of my friends started getting belligerent, I asked about the > details of the law. The marshall was nice enough to show me the exact > text in his copy of the starte penal code. Do you recall the section of the CA PC? I don't find it... There -is- mention of billyclubs and blackjacks, but no mention of length. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I just traveled to the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia and took my > unbreakable clear acrylic 1" by 21" practice bastons in my carry on with no > questions asked. Just a couple of days ago the signs by the checkin line show sticks as being illegal to carry on. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Edge Wise" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:32:51 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I remember way back before guns were demonized, that in Kalifornia a cancelled handgun without a permit was a misdemeanor and possession of a sawed off baseball bat, brass knuckles, billyclub, or blackjack was a felony. They were classified as weapon of malice, where a gun was not. I am sure everything is illegal now, even a roll of nickels, if you are not on your way to the bank. --- I will have to check-in my sticks at the airport from now on! I did not know or notice they were pictured on the sign! Even the ticket agent said they did not know what was the classification. Maybe I dodged a bullet. Thanks Ray! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Legal question > > In California. Any kind of stick under 36" is considered a concealed > > weapon. (I'm sure pencils don't fall into that catagory, but I don't > > remember the low end) Several years ago, some buddies and I were > > practicing Serrada in the college parking lot. A state marshall drove > > up, asked to see our sticks, and locked them in the trunk of his car. > > When one of my friends started getting belligerent, I asked about the > > details of the law. The marshall was nice enough to show me the exact > > text in his copy of the starte penal code. > > Do you recall the section of the CA PC? I don't find it... > There -is- mention of billyclubs and blackjacks, but no mention of length. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest