Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:13:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #322 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: IQ Protection Ruminations (Marc Denny) (Richard KILLICK) 2. Schools in Syracuse, New York (Ken McDonough) 3. Re: training without equipment (Gints Klimanis) 4. re: training without equipment (Brian Phillips) 5. IQ Protection/ symbolic fighting (Nat Nickele) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Richard KILLICK" To: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:44:31 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: IQ Protection Ruminations (Marc Denny) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have always thought one of the many good things about the Dog Brothers was not just that they banged sticks hard in the park, which in its self is great but not unique. How ever I always loved the idea that during each Gathering, the group would evolve, so Top Dog would drop people with back hands and knee shots, people would evolve not to let that happen again. Then someone would bring the crash and bash to the table, someone else would bring the Dog Brothers take on BJJ and stick grappling to turn the tables on the crasher. So on and so with the group evolving around each other. A fantastic way to build up the individual and the group which is again stressed along the lines of be friends at the end of the day talk at the beginning (another great thing). I noticed the same thing when I came back from my trip to the states and starting working the things I had picked up at the gathering and from Marc. People would evolve around me forcing me to look at and dip into krabi karbong etc. Its interesting how a couple of changes like stronger fencing masks and new personnel can change a groups dynamics, and things come full circle again. Makes me wonder how much has been forgotten in FMA over the years and is lying under the service for someone to rediscover. Gives me more encouragement to start fighting again and review the stuff I have got. Regards Richard >> Message: 2 > From: "Marc Denny" > To: > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:23:27 -0700 > Subject: [Eskrima] IQ Protection Ruminations > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Woof All: > > Literally two days ago, while being chased around Carlton's dentist's chair, > we were talking (at least until he caught me) about my previously raised > matter of the IQ protection skills at the last Gathering. > > I recollected that in the beginning, due to Top Dog's ferocious knee shot > Salty developed his and I developed mine and knee shots became an important > fighting technique. Then as I introduced, via my training with PG Edgar > Sulite, the Ilustrisimo cross-step as a defense against all three of these > knee attacks, knee attacks faded in importance. The Usual Suspects all knew > what they were, and all had a sense of how to handle them. > > As their use declined, along came a crop of fighters who simply never saw > knee shots. And then one day, as seen somewhere in our second series, Dog > Troy got his knee cap split in half because he lacked awareness of the line > as well as solutions once it became apparent that his opponent was indeed > going after his knee.. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:20:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Schools in Syracuse, New York Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yo: I am moving from Tulsa to Syracuse, New York. Yeah, I know the winters suck ! Any schools in Syracuse you recommend ? Thanks, Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:48:30 -0700 From: Gints Klimanis Organization: none To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: training without equipment Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I also agree with training without equipment. When I was training under > the late Suro Inay in the late 70s, we weren't allowed to use > protective gear because he felt you wouldn't respect the weapon, and > your technique would be sloppy because you didn't have to be as > precise. Protective gear is useful if it is actually used for protection instead of a shield. Personally, I think that training in the absence of at least *some* protective gear also fosters bad habits. If groin protectors aren't used, then no one kicks to the groin. If head protectors aren't used, then no one goes for the head or anything above elbow level, excluding the occasional shoulder slap. >We did full >contact sparring, first with plastic baseball bats, then rattan sticks. >The only rule was no head shots. I've heard a lot of these accounts, but really, do you think this is full contact if all head-level shots are excluded ? Also, did anyone ever take a real beating or were these bouts stopped as soon as one person put their hand up when they were winded or mildly bruised? Although I have never witnessed any Filipino "death matches" or grudge duels , the few I've read about ended with eye pokes or by knockout with a left elbow to the head. I've talked to two people about some grudge matches. One of them apparently saw several and said that all ended quickly after a lot of circling around and then 1-2 head smacks. By my book, if "full-contact" sparring is unable to approximate these fight conclusions, the sparring is unrealistic. > The only equipment I would agree with using is eye protection. I still > have slightly blurred vision in one eye from a scratched cornea from > when I was poked in the eye by a student's fingernails over 10 years > ago. It an extrememly painful injury, with long term consequences. This is a serious injury, and I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. I had a similar injury from an eye poke in December 1999 from Kenpo practice that left my eye red for a month, although I've recovered, I think. The eye protection a lot of people have settled on is the fencing mask. It's been around for decades. It allows you to do full force stick thrusts or hand pokes, although I broke a thumb in Oct 2001 (two month recovery) from what I'm pretty sure was a thumb poke to a fencing mask. Unfortunately, as soon as you start to use the fencing mask, you'll have to add some sort of basic hand protection, like a leather garden glove, to avoid all of the knuckle scrapes on your opponent's helmet. With respect, Gints --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:37:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Phillips To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: training without equipment Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Garry wrote <> Wow. I am rather impressed. I thought I was rather dedicated, as I get weird looks from my coworkers about the new welts and bruises on my forearms that show up regularly. I had a similar "tender knuckle" experience this week, but nothing as intense as you are describing.. perhaps I should train harder lol. I second the eye protection comment. I take the view that goggles are like utilizing rattan over hardwood sticks for practice (excellent cost/benefit trade-off!!). The realism loss is minimal, as I think I am skittish enough about an eye shot regardless, and a thrust/hook to the nose, lips or ear is painful and highly motivating. I would like to ask the people on the list who have trained both with and without hand protection how they think this changed their sparring technique, and whether there are lessons to be learn from using hand protection that the "avoidance" style of unarmoured sparring might not be best for teaching. (FYI I'm a newbie at FMA, so bear with the ignorance on my part, please!) regards, Brian --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] IQ Protection/ symbolic fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey guys, Do you feel that you absolutely must train full contact to be good? What do you think of the idea of fighting somewhat symbolically? I know too many people who have had "split knee caps" and the like. I don't need to experience it to know that it sucks. I'll take their word for it. Just watching those guys limp makes me paranoid about guarding my knees. I have tried train with the mentality of a total wuss. Sort of "One good hit and I'm done." My ego hates this mind set. My ego want me to shrug off that hit to my knee that my (merciful) sparring partner pulled and continue with the fight. Instead, I know that I just lost. Time to reset and begin again. Do you think fighting lightly, but with this sort of mindset can be enough, or do I need to go and get more bruises? A few years ago, I had the opportunity to spar with some higher-caliber UFC type fighters. They were pretty hard core in their training, and had MUCH more experience, strength, and general knowledge than I did, but I managed to negate their attacks, because I feel I had fear of injury and a realistic mindset. In my mind, if they got me in a joint lock, that appendage would be broken. In their mind, if their appendage was locked, it would be held and or twisted until they couldn't take it any more and they tapped out. IMHO they didn't have a proper respect for their own bodies' frailness. When they were tapped on the eyes or throat by me (symbolic for "I just gouged you"), they kept fighting like it was no big deal. When I would put one of them in a cross body arm bar, they would strain against it. When fighting with practice weapons, they would shrug off a gentle knock in the knee/foot/wrist/head. I didn't want to actually injure these guys, so I always pulled my shots. They seemed to mistake my gentleness for their invulnerability and would continue fighting. I think that they probably needed to be hit hard in order to become realistic. I had to quit when one day, as I was on the receiving end of an arm bar, I realized that I too was trying to flex out of it. I thought, "What the heck am I doing?" I checked my ego, tapped out and went home. So, once again, I ask you; can I be a good fighter without hard contact or am I just fooling myself? -Nat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest