Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:17:14 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #342 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. CSE or ISE ? (Ray Terry) 2. RE: England's Tony Martin case (Patrick Davies) 3. Ramon Dekker Seminar (GioSEAMA@aol.com) 4. Danger to Burglars? (Khalkee@netscape.net) 5. Kissing (Ray Terry) 6. Mosque grenaded in Mindanao (Marc Denny) 7. Well done Tony (Marc Denny) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] CSE or ISE ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If anyone is interested, I am now teaching Cabales/Inayan Serrada Escrima... Garry, Are you teaching Cabales Serrada Escrima or Inayan Serrada Eskrima, one part of Inayan Eskrima? The two Serradas are very similar, but not identical. Or perhaps are you teaching them both? Just inquiring... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:57:06 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: England's Tony Martin case Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hes not being sued as they exposed the burgler as being a liar. When you are over marc, ill get Krishna to take you to see the place if you want ; ) We'll don tin hats for protection just in case he shoots at us! Only an hour or twos drive, Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GioSEAMA@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:39:37 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ramon Dekker Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ramon Dekker will be in New York City for a two day Muay Thai seminar on November 1st and 2nd. Ramon known as Diamond Dekker faced some of the toughest competition of his day directly in thailand and around the world, he faced off against Coban, Sangtiennoi(the deadly kisser) and Nambkabun(the ring genius) to name a few in some of the most brutal Muay Thai battles. His balls to the wall fighting style earned him the respect and affection of the thai people something no farang before or after has achieved. For further information contact: Ultimate Gym 212 725-4666 or email: nestormarte@hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:33:48 -0400 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Danger to Burglars? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yes, the facts of the incident may be less than optimal with respect to legalities, but the PRINCIPLE is what I'm addressing ... and how that principle may effect the lives of any of us or those who are dear to us. As is, we here on Turtle Island can suffer legal penalty for injuring someone in self defense. Providing ourselves a context-setter like The Citizen's Right to Self Defense bill is IMHO ++OVERDUE/IMPORTANT++. Things are gonna get nastier, and unless we're going to belly-up to crime, when we're put into a situation where we have no choice but to serve some chumps with the wages of their misguided actions ... we're more likely to have to pay for it ($$$ &/or Gaol [Jail]) than not. That is the central thought driving my comments. No one should have to be cast as a criminal for stopping a criminal from doing the crime. We practice skills and disciplines designed for the stopping. If/when we have the occasion to to be using, then penalties paying will we be. Heck, I've already resigned myself to the possibility/probability that if I ever have to pop or rend somebody for invading my home and/or attacking self &/or family they (the invader/attacker) will get more compassion from the "state" than will I. It just ain't right. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Kissing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > competition of his day directly in thailand and around the world, he faced off > against Coban, Sangtiennoi(the deadly kisser) and Nambkabun(the ring genius) Be careful out there. When Crafty faced off against a "deadly kisser" he ended up married with children. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:21:20 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Mosque grenaded in Mindanao Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net STRATFOR'S MORNING INTELLIGENCE BRIEF SITUATION REPORTS - Oct. 3, 2003 1150 GMT - PHILIPPINES: Four people were killed and at least 30 were wounded after two grenades were hurled into a mosque during Friday prayers Oct. 3 in Midsayap on the island of Mindanao in the Philippines, Reuters reported. The attack occurred in a compound of the government's National Irrigation Administration (NIA), and most of the casualties are believed to be government employees -- including Macmud Mending, the agency's regional director, and Ismael Datu Kali, the imam of the mosque. No one has claimed responsibility for the attack, but authorities believe only one person was involved. Frivolous tangent: Ismael Datu Kali? --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:49:05 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Well done Tony Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Ollie Batts wrote: > Yes, we have a crazy legal system over here Well, its not like we don't! > but you also have to remember > that the firearm used was illegally held. The short answer is: So what? To flesh that out a bit, it is irrelevant as to whether he was defending himself or not. The matter of the illegality of the gun is a separate charge which should not be blended into the self-defense issue. > In addition to that, and at the original trial, it was claimed that Martin > had lay in wait for the burglars to come, as he had been targeted by them on > previous occasions. Please forgive me, but this strikes me as some pretty wooly-headed thinking. How on earth can a man in his own home be said to be laying in wait?!? From prior reference to this case here on the ED, I understand his home to be remote. If they had come before and he weren't ready he'd be a fool. > The reason he was refused early release on parole was almost certainly due > to the fact that he (Martin) refused to express any remorse for killing one > of the burglars, as well as severely injuring the other. Right. After being "targeted by them on previous occasions" he defended his home and himself. Why on earth should he be sorry?!? > The one who died was also shot in the back whilst attempting to flee the > scene. His 'friend' went off and left him to bleed to death in the garden. > Martin claims that he did not go outside and was, therefore, unaware that > the youngster was in need of urgent medical attention. Obviously the complete record is not in front of us. I do not know for example whom was shot first or second or where etc. I do not know if the man shot in the back was shot in the house or outside. I do not know if you are assuming that his being shot in the back means that he was attempting to flee even though it could also mean that he simply had turned in fear at the sight/sound of the gun. I do not know if lighting conditions allowed TM, in the high adrenal heat of fighting for his life at night in the confines of his home in the dark but for a flashlight could tell which way the man was facing at the moment he pulled the trigger. An additional point to consider in the matter of fleeing. The general notion (I would imagine this to be similar in English and American law) is that shooting fleeing people in the back is bad UNLESS the flight is momentary i.e. simply as part of an ongoing intention to do harm. In that here we have a heroin dealer and friends coming repeatedly after this man, as a juror I would have no problem voting for acquittal even if the distance of the flight made it clear that there was no intention to continue that night. And lastly, if I were TM I would see no reason to leave to confines of my home after they had left-- perhaps to be ambushed again outside. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest