Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:52:27 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #349 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: A mistake in the Title (Ray Terry) 2. Filipino man kills a man in Madrid (Francisco j. Gomez) 3. "Rundown" Bullwhip Technique (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 4. Re: FMA in Boston Area (Beungood@aol.com) 5. RE: Vol 10 #348 - Doce Pares in Boston (Hubbard, Bartrand J) 6. Duck! Incoming! Boom-Boom! Pluck-thwang! (Marc Denny) 7. Re: Self Defense et al (Buz Grover) 8. Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies (Michael Koblic) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A mistake in the Title To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Mangisursuro is an Ilokano dialect which means a teacher. Literally > speaking whoever is qaualified to teach could be a mangisusuro. Yes and no. True, a word is just a word and a title is just a title. However in this case, it is a title with special meaning to all Inayans. Thus you will never see a -true- Inayan use that term, except in reference to Suro Mike Inay. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Francisco j. Gomez" To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:40:43 +0200 Subject: [Eskrima] Filipino man kills a man in Madrid Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This monday, Renato Salazar Alingarog, a fifty-two-year-old filipino man killed with a knife a man and wounded another one when they wanted to mug him. The filipino was going into the underground in Madrid, Spain when two moroccan muggers assaulted him, he defended himself with a knife. The filipino man has been arrested. _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.microsoft.com/es --__--__-- Message: 3 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:46:17 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Rundown" Bullwhip Technique Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Who did the choreography for the bullwhip, double bullwhip, in the movie, "Rundown" with the Rock? Nice photography, very visual whip stuff. Hmm, Anthony DeLongis, Sayoc, or Latigo y Daga?? Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: FMA in Boston Area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/7/03 12:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I just moved to Boston, and I wanted to know if anyone could steer me towards a Doce Pares instructor in the area. Actually, any FMA groups would be great, I haven't had much luck tracking anyone down myself. Thanks, Jasper Liao Hi Jasper, there ia an FMA Instructor I reccomend in Pekiti Tirsia , William Schultze, who is phenominal. He can be reached at wmschultz@meganet.net. If you have any questions regarding him please feel free to contact via e-mail and we can chat. Thanks, Jack --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:28:05 -0700 From: "Hubbard, Bartrand J" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Vol 10 #348 - Doce Pares in Boston Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey, You can find Jason Silverman there. But he's in the south part of the Boston area in Weymouth. His info is: Guro Jason M. Silverman EEMA Fitness & Martial Arts Weymouth, Ma 02190 (781) 335-0800 http://www.eemaworld.com/ I met him in Las Vegas at the Doce Pares World Convention this last year. He's got good stuff. Good luck. Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares www.capitaldocepares.com [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:02:59 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Duck! Incoming! Boom-Boom! Pluck-thwang! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re Duck! Incoming! [boom boom] > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Message: 7 > Woof All: > > When it comes down to it, Tony Martin was jailed for shooting a man > because a jury considered that his actions were beyond the acceptable > behaviour considered by English and Welsh law. A jury of 12 ordinary > people looked at the facts and found him guilty under the laws relevant > to their country. And tis the laws that are being questioned. > While everyone can sympathise with the hell he endured from some who > took advantage of his isolationism and his bizarre lifestyle, he had > proved himself to be a threat to others with a firearm before thus > revoking any shotgun licence. Tea & sympathy weren't doing him much good though it would seem when the thugs broke into his house in the night once again. As for the revocation of his shotgun license, for all I know, that may well have been deserved. That said, I could be wrong, but the impression I have is that the legal results would have been the same if he had plucked a good English longbow-- the thwang of the bow being no different in the eyes of the law no different than the boom of the gun. > I have to ask whether I want citizens to arm themselves in order to self > police or for vigilantism purposes. The answer to that from me is a > resounding NO! and since I live here and bring up the kids and dog here > I would be happy that others don't enforce their values on us. Please sit down, because apparently this may come as a bit of a shock-- but I have no power to enforce anything here in America, let alone Great Britain. That said, is there not a value in searching together for universal principles? As for "self-police" and "vigilantism" I'm unclear as to the meaning and applicability of the terms in the context of a man alone in the night with his home being broken into. > I've lived in hellish estates where the drug gangs tormented people and > its not fun. Ive done what ive had to do and I may or may not have been > punished for doing so. Ummm, I'm a little confused here-- what communicates is "self-policing" and "vigilantism" :-o TM was an old geezer in his home in the night repeatedly under invasion. He was not the trained still of fighting age martial artist that you are. Seems kinda human to me that he would want an edge. > There are many more people out there constructively doing things for > which they receive no publicity and they face the threats and the ups > and downs of their efforts. They are the ones worth celebrating and > not - in my humble opinion -Tony Martin. > Pat Pat, I'm sorry that our exchange seems to have rubbed your fur the wrong way or gotten your hackles up, but I really think that my point is not getting across. We seem to be divided by a common language. Indulge me please in one more try: Although I vigorously support gun rights here in the US (and I think you may come to regret your approach, but that's up to you) the issue here is not one of gun rights. The issue is one of the right of self-defense. This was the point of my favorable reference to the story of the father who shot the burglar with an unregistered gun in New York. The charges he faced were for the gun-- NOT the self-defense. It would seem that the same approach would allow for your vigorous anti-gun values as well as supporting the right of self-defense. The point is not a celebration of Tony Martin. The point is that it would appear that the right to self-defense is being vitiated in your country. Then, to top it off, he is subject to being sued for defending his home in the night (paid for by the govt!) and in the face of very plausible threats of revenge is not only not allowed to be armed, he is not even allowed to leave the country! Does this not concern you? Woof, Crafty Dog PS: My thanks to the list member who sidebarred me some URLs concerning the TM affair. I will be looking into them. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:22:18 -0400 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Self Defense et al Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is a point about the whole Tony Martin incident that I haven't seen stated directly. In a nutshell, the more concerned a bad guy is that he may confront an armed homeowner during a burglary or other crime, the better off citizens as a whole are. Criminal enterprise is, after all, an enterprise: when the cost of doing criminal business rises above a certain threshold, criminals modify their behavior. It's been shown, for instance, that states in America that have "shall issue" concealed firearms carry laws experience a drop in crimes like burglary, robbery, and assault and a rise in crimes like auto theft soon after the "shall issue" law is passed. It's surmised that criminals turn from crimes where they might confront an armed citizen, to ones where they are less likely to. Nothing like the thought of staring down a double barrel shotgun to cause one reassess his business plan. A peeve of mine involves current "crime wave" reporting in the DC metro area. Washington DC has the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation, yet is experiencing a spike in shootings, armed robberies, and the like. Maryland is one of the most restrictive states in the nation when it comes to gun ownership, yet Maryland counties contiguous to DC, particularly Prince Georges county, are also suffering a violent crime spike. I can't find any reporting indicating the Virginia counties contiguous to DC, however, are experiencing similar problems. Virginia is a "shall issue" state that grants any law abiding citizen who has completed a training course a permit to carry a concealed firearm. In Virginia the bad guys don't know if a prospective victim might reply to an attack with a 230 grain hollowpoint or three. Hence, in my opinion, they modify their behavior or move on to pastures where the sheep aren't allowed teeth. The disparate effects of this "crime wave" are lost, of course, on the local media. The Washington Post, for instance reported last week on page 8 or so that a recent study had shown that "gun control" legislation had no discernible effect on crime. I guarantee you that if the report had shown otherwise to any degree it would have been a page 1 story well stocked with quotes from Fienstein, Schumer, Kennedy, et al. The next day, the Post ran an editorial urging Maryland to toughen laws against "assault style weapons." Apparently the Post's editorial staff doesn't read it's own news reporting. The bottom line is that there is a proven, cost effective means to quickly reduce violent crimes. This means disproportionately helps minorities--since they are more likely to live in high crime areas--and women--since a firearm trumps the size and strength of an attacker. This means is self supporting and cost effective; all expenses are borne by willing, motivated, law abiding citizens. Alas, supporters of the nanny state find reason to hyperventilate whenever citizens are allowed to provide for their own defense. Don't want to disturb the criminal cost benefit ratio, you know, someone might get hurt. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:59:11 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The story of an old lady scaring off four "car-jackers" is amusing on the surface of it. On the other hand it provides a potent weapon for the anti-gun lobby. I do not think that threatening anyone with a gun is a laughing matter and doing so in error is very serious and may have potentially deadly consequences. I suspect that the right way lies somewhere in the middle - a right to bear arms for those who are *qualified* to do so: mentally, physically and by the virtue of training and demonstrable competence. ANd now I shall don my asbestos suit... Mike Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest