Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:47:08 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #350 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re Duck! Incoming! [boom boom] (Brian Phillips) 2. Filipino Man Kills a man in Madrid (francis.serrano@sbcglobal.net) 3. RE: "Rundown" Bullwhip Technique (Harold Evans) 4. Re: Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies (Buz Grover) 5. Re: Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies (Pierre Honeyman) 6. Re: Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies (jonbroster@another.co.uk) 7. Doce Pares - Boston (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) 8. Re: Bullwhip Technique (Douglas Shannon) 9. re: Duck! Incoming! Boom-Boom! Pluck-thwang! boiing (Patrick Davies) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:47:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Phillips To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re Duck! Incoming! [boom boom] Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Patrick Davies" wrote Mr. Davies, While only a beginner in FMA I've had a bit of background in politics, economics, the philosphical underpinnings of liberty, that sort of thing. May I suggest the following meme as a useful ruler or metric? There is a saying among liberty advocates that "I may find what you say disgusting, evil, misguided, even atrocious.. but I will defend to the death your right to say it". This is a statement of support towards the exercise of free speech, *regardless* of how attractive the particular trappings the speech may take. This includes noxious viewpoints (to me anyway) such as NSDP/National Alliance propaganda, far right extremist Sh'ite thought, or the Little Red Book of Mao. There is a similar statement that "None of us are free if one person is enslaved". I believe these are congruent and compelling ideas. If a (for instance) prejudiced, Gypsy-hating, old wacko defends his life, property, security and privacy with lethal force.. that's a good thing. So is the diligent impoverished widow and mother of three working two jobs who is defending her desire to not be a rape victim. There is no fundamental moral difference... despite the fact that the women is a far more attractive poster child for self-protection, and likely the sort of person you would rather have supper with. My dad (a wise man who drums, and doubtless passed on some genes for sticks to me) says "integrity is when you do the right thing regardless of how it makes you feel". We should support Martin, not because he's likeable.. but (or if) because we believe he was "right". Good training all, Brian --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:47:53 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "francis.serrano@sbcglobal.net" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Filipino Man Kills a man in Madrid Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net They have arrested him? Man don't they know that Spain no longer controls the Filipinos? I guess there are still can't accept that we can still kick there @$$ in hand to hand stuff. Not much has changed since the occupation. Still trying to oppress us brown folks. Francis [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 12_header.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 12_side.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 12_footer.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of 12_tile.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:17:32 -0400 From: Harold Evans To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: "Rundown" Bullwhip Technique Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tom, IMDB.Com stated that the bullwhip instructor for the movie, "The Rundown", was Anthony De Longis. His website is http://www.delongis.com/index.html. Best regards, Harold Evans --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:00:51 -0400 From: Buz Grover Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, Mike Kolbic wrote: > ANd now I shall don my asbestos suit... Howdy Mike. Nah, no flaming, at least from my end. I have no problem with folks who hold opinions differing from mine, particularly if it appears they've given the topic some thought; that's what forums like this one are about. Long as you can tip one after exchanging views I figure everyone is the better for it. Hope you can forgive my propensity to bandy polysyllabic verbiage. Shutting down the conversation is not my end, though I've been told more than once that my dense prose is hard to follow. Wish I could swing the sticks as well as I can bang on the keyboard. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: 07 Oct 2003 22:55:45 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Tue, 2003-10-07 at 17:59, Michael Koblic wrote: > I suspect that the right way lies somewhere in the middle - a right to bear > arms for those who are *qualified* to do so: mentally, physically and by the > virtue of training and demonstrable competence. This kind of argument is attractive on the surface because everyone can agree that they only want "qualified" people to carry guns. The problem is that practically no-one can define what "qualified" means. Furthermore it doesn't solve the problem. The least "qualified" people are not going to bother seeking licensing or other niceties, meanwhile the law abiding are still stuck in line waiting for their turn to jump through the hoops. It still leaves many people, most in some cases, unable to "qualify", and the cost of the qualification can easily put firearms out of the reach of the people who most need them. Funding the qualifiers and the license checkers, and the computer systems to keep track of this, and the law enforcement officers to enforce the myriad regulations that such a system entails costs far more than the dollars required to run it. It sucks resources, both financial and human, away from enforcing laws that actually punish real criminals: those who misuse firearms to threaten, wound, kill, rob, or rape others. Lastly, as was already mentioned, laws attempting to control who gets firearms and when don't seem to have any impact at all on actual crime rates. Here in Canada we just had a stunning show of that fact in the latest statistics showing overall homicides are up ~4% (IIRC), but that the number comitted with firearms (of all types) is down. So we're killing more, but we're not using guns to do it (in our case, we're using knives). Unless we ascribe some special insult to getting killed with a firearm, the fact that someone is killed with something else seems kind of irrelevant to the dearly departed. IMHO you either have the right to self-defence or you don't, and saying "Yes, but..." is equivocation and essentially means that you don't. If we suppose that we have the right to self-defence, then that should imply that we are allowed to use the most effective means we can find. Restricting that list (and please, nobody mention nukes) to "approved" items only means that the list makers are leaving some people without any effective tools for self preservation. Got another suit? :) Pierre --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:22:28 +0100 (BST) From: jonbroster@another.co.uk To: eskrima digest < eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Right of self-defense, guns and old ladies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, My feeling on the proliferation of firearms in the USA and the prohibition of said items here in the UK is that most people's view of life in the USA is vastly distorted by TV. Most areas of the USA are not characterised by drive-by shootings and hold ups, this is limited to a relatively few inner city black-spots. Here in Nottingham (home of Robin Hood, resistance to oppression, Sherwood Forest et al) we are developing a serious gun crime problem. Speaking to a nurse at a hospital in Cumbria recently (150 miles away), it turned out that her only knowledge of Nottingham was of it being the virtual gun crime capital of Britain. Over the last few years this country has adopted some of the strictest gun controls in the world. This has simply meant that a lot of collectors are now deprived of their antiques, sportsmen may not possess the tools of their trade and criminals may act with ever increasing certainty that their actions will not be met with deadly force. Prior to 9.11 it would seems perfectly reasonable to carry a swiss army knife of similar on an aeroplane. In fact 3 years ago I distinctly remember seeing a security guard at Heathrow hand a man back his SpiderCo after it had been through the "cash and keys tray" (as I was on my way to Cairo on honeymoon). Now, if a bunch of terrorists, of any persuasion, can get their act together to get weapons on an airliner, they have an absolute certainty that there will be not even a nail file among the passengers to be used to fight back. This is the situation we have in the UK, and it pisses me off!!! Jon There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife! http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster -- Personalised email by http://another.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:12:01 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares - Boston Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Definitely check out Jason Silverman( http://www.eemaworld.com) . I've know him for quite a few years and highly recommend him. He runs and excellent program! Don www.imafit.com _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Douglas Shannon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:01:59 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bullwhip Technique Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was sot of curious who did the choreography for the double bullwhip sequence in Underworld... That looked alot like Siniwali to my very untrained eye. >From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com >Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:46:17 EDT >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] "Rundown" Bullwhip Technique >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Who did the choreography for the bullwhip, double bullwhip, in the movie, >"Rundown" with the Rock? >Nice photography, very visual whip stuff. Hmm, Anthony DeLongis, Sayoc, or >Latigo y Daga?? > >Tom Furman >www.physicalstrategies.com > Sylvester Burchardt East Kingdom - SCA m.k.a. Douglas Shannon _________________________________________________________________ Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:53:42 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] re: Duck! Incoming! Boom-Boom! Pluck-thwang! boiing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 6 Ok, I will take a fresh approach. Since you referenced the NRA etc I did assume your point was one of promoting the gun over here. I apologise if that distorted my point as well. A right that we don't dispute. I think though that Tony Martin had used force that maybe overstepped the mark. If someone steps on my toe and walks off then I have every right to pull them up and confront them (verbally). If I grab them and hit them then the degree of force is far too much and I will get punished. That is the law and I advise on that and its up to the individual to see fit at the time and make a clear choice. While Martin had been picked upon he had also created the persona of victim by his choice of rejecting all advice from the local police who had dealt with him over a number of years. He rejected a lot of methods that could have avoided his situation and was clearly unfit to conduct himself in a manner that many consider to be acceptable in modern day society. He showed no remorse in that human life was taken which I feel has certainly lost him a lot of sympathy. The teenager that died was a victim too before that night. He was a victim of circumstance that had him in an environment where if there were choices he was unable to see them, so I can't simply applaud his death even if he was up to mischief. Was that mischief enough to justify being shot? anyone that has a criminal conviction involving certain terms of imprisonment is refused a passport. The lawsuit is absurd and has been mutually dropped after both parties came to agreement as Martin counter sued. Bizzare, stupid and a poor reflection of the way society is going. The plausible threats were taken seriously but have now been, to my knowledge, discounted by everyone. self defence concerns me yes, you know that. But if someone I teach refuses to listen to the lesson and goes out there and acts in a way that brings it onto them then I find it hard to offer them sympathy. That doesn't excuse the person who did the crime. So I discount the Martin episode and find anyone triumphanting of it doing so to push across their own points for their own purpose regardless of the facts. Rather than treating the symptoms I am more interested in dealing with the causes to make communities safer. There are real results where communities are fighting back and giving kids the greater choice that is seeing the gangs which encourage the crime culture getting pushed back. These tend not to get picked up by the newspapers with the sensationalism that a Martin case may bring. Several years ago an Aberdeen man was lost in Houston. He was over for work reasons and had been on a night out. He was lost and saw lights on at a house and went and knocked on the front door to ask for help. The occupant shot through the door and killed him believing him to be a danger to his life. I have to ask whether this is what I want, the type of society that shoots its neighbour instead of helping him. Its not, quite simply. Pat Davies --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest