Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 03:03:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #360 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: fighting knives? (Bob Steele) 2. Re: Re: Push daggers (Dave Wright) 3. Re: stick & knife (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Filipino man kills a man in Madrid (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: fighting knives? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bob Steele" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] fighting knives? Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:23:19 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I noticed Ray responded with a quote from Ayoob. (I think he was responding to this post). I'd be interested to see the actual statistics on court cases. Ayoobs arguments are anecdotal. The same was true of the lectures given at FrontSite in Nevada. We received strongly worded warnings about criminal and civil prosecutions ( problems 2 & 3 in FrontSite speak ). I've never seen stats on how many shootings occur (private citizen against bad guy). How many criminal trials are prosecuted. How many convictions. And the same for civil? Are we perpetuating an urban myth? Are prosecutions 9 out of 10 or 1 out of 10? Bob Steele PS: I don't want to be the 1 in 10, even low odds are worth taking steps to avoid. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jason couture" To: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:05 AM Subject: [Eskrima] fighting knives? > Dear readers - My question is this: How do you think a > jury is going to react to a blade designed for killing > a man vs. a common task blade placed before them in > your trial? Even if you feel you were justified to > cut the dirt bag, a jury may feel that you were > carrying a fighting blade with the hope to use it on > someone someday. Let's face it, we do (as martial > artists) do role playing in our mind as to: what if > this? Or what if that? This is a healthy practice > but, I can say from experience that the everyday joe > doesn't think the same way we do and most likely it > will be the everyday joe on the jury. Don't get me > wrong, I LOVE fighting blades and the arts connected > to them but, I don't want to go to prison for > defending myself or my family! The larger the blade > the more guilty we will look in court. What the blade > was designed for will play a huge part also. YES > DEFEND YOURSELF! Just be cautious how you do it. Am > I wrong? > > ===== > **JASON COUTURE** > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dave Wright" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Push daggers Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:13:11 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Push dagger and boxing ... hmmmm. No, don't box as usual! First if you are going to use a push dagger, I hope it is 2" or more and double edged. If you are boxing/Thai Boxing and maintaining a traditional boxing stance, at some point your hands will come to your face and the push dagger will be pointing straight up. The blade then could get pushed into your face cutting or puncturing you. You want to keep your live hand at your face and your knife to the side chest high. From there your are going to shoot your knife punches. Instead of pulling straight back, make the puncture/stab wound longer by going up or down as you retract your punch (a little loop up or down on the way out). This way you cut a little more real-estate and who knows maybe an artery to take some more time off the clock. When an attacker strikes stab the striking limb, if possible. A boxer may instinctually want to block. Even with a push dagger a boxer has to change/modify his boxing ways. I see the push dagger as being most effective against a weaponless opponent(s). As a response to a weapon wielding opponent, it is a last resort, a Hale Mary weapon. Also a small push dagger is not going to deal with a leather jacket, thusly limiting your targets. If you have a small knife, bigger blade than handle requirement, and like push dagger applications, I would consider the Cold Steel Desperado as a step up. You will have more fighting options and you can us it in a similar way as push dagger, if you like. You have heard the saying, "don't take a knife to a gun fight," well don't take a little knife to a big knife fight. UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A DEBILITATING FIRST STRIKE UNABATED, then you can go to any kind of fight. :) Dave --Preempt them all and let God sort them out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nat Nickele" To: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:04 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Push daggers > FWIW, I have heard that push daggers are a great > weapon for someone who has a boxing background. Just > put it in your hand and box as usual. > -Nat > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] stick & knife To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Pick up what you can pick up and use it the best you can. Be mindful of what you do, as much as possible avoiding killing. Get out; as much as possible, get out of there. Bot --- Francis Serrano wrote: > Fellow Eskrimadors, > > Now here is the thing with that subject... Many > have asked for types of knife and or type of baton > it was. But > folks, if you were in a room with a killer and there > is 1 stick and 1 knife. Do you really have time to > think what > type of knife and or baston it is??? > > Francis > -- > __________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > CareerBuilder.com has over 400,000 jobs. Be smarter > about your job search > http://corp.mail.com/careers > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 04:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Filipino man kills a man in Madrid To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, That's an interesting point. You may defend yourself, but not kill. If you kill someone while defending yourself, why? So, now you have to prove that either it happened but was not deliberate, or else you might have been killed first, in which case you were in fear for your life. Which then gets to this: how do you train? To defend yourself and others or to kill? How can you prove that given your knowledge (if you were trained or in training) you are only defending yourself and are not a reckless killer? So sorry, this is only more questions than ever... I bet these must have been asked and answered hundreds of times before on this list... Bot > It is probably that the Filipino used the knife of > one of the attackers, > there are some news that claim this. > In Spain as in many other countries (I think), if > you kill a man although in > self defence, you are going to be arrested. And you > will have to demonstrate > that the people who attacked you could have wounded > you. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dale rienda suelta a tu tiempo libre. Encuentra mil > ideas para exprimir tu > ocio con MSN Entretenimiento. > http://entretenimiento.msn.es/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] fighting knives? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I noticed Ray responded with a quote from Ayoob. > ... > civil? Are we perpetuating an urban myth? Or playing it safe? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest