Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:17:08 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #362 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. More details on Rome knife-defense case (edwintam) 2. kills man in madrid (gordon walker) 3. Re: Push Daggers & Carry Blades (Buz Grover) 4. Re: Re: IMHO you are fooling yourself (QublwPrime@aol.com) 5. And now, Italy (Marc Denny) 6. Re: Re:Stick and knife (barry meadows) 7. Dave Wright's push daggers and boxing... (jay de leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: edwintam To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] More details on Rome knife-defense case Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FYI, here is the report from the Guardian web-site with further details... "Martial arts expert kills two raiders Philip Willan in Rome Monday October 13, 2003 The Guardian A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third. The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction. Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force. The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli. The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment. Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden. At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds. Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung. The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands. Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled. Guardian Unlimited ?? Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003 " --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:37:27 -0400 (EDT) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kills man in madrid Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Regarding Felipe Jocano's response to the Filipino man in madrid thread. I dont train to hurt somebody. I train to protect myself and, hopefully the event won't happen, my loved ones. If it comes down to my life or the others life, I dont know which way it will go. In matters of survival and life and death scenarios, I dont think a person should be choosing that time to begin an analysis of his own values versus self preservation. It should be automatic, should it not?? I had some problems pushing the send button on this comment due to the immensity of the question posed. The values of todays society in North America... tend to lean away from this sort of questioning and those who would consider this matter arent in the mainstream. Thank you for the opportunity to use my thesaurus. Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:35:43 -0400 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Push Daggers & Carry Blades Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've played with various push daggers over the years and haven't found much use for them. You get a lot more utility out of a folder or fixed blade knife of the same weight, though I do have a belt buckle push dagger which can hold up my pants and can serve as a bottle opener in a crunch. Can't imagine using the darn thing in a fight, however. Note moreover that a fixed blade or folder of the same weight will have a smaller cross section because of the "T" handle on the push dagger. In other words push daggers don't work as well as other options and are more difficult to carry concealed. In short, what's the point of carrying one when other options abound? I lump together push daggers with other interesting but ultimately useless blades like the combination brass knuckles and double edged dagger known as a WWI Trench knife. They look kinda scary and the bad guys wave 'em around in police dramas, but ultimately they create more problems than they cure. There are a lot of options that provide better utility in a more manageable package than do push daggers. There has also been a thread going about the size of a carry blade. To my mind this argument is contextual: something I carry in the woods doesn't make sense when I'm sitting at my desk. I think it makes perfect sense to have a Ken Onion Whirlwind or Cold Steel Voyager in the pocket when at work, the 18" machete I hang from my pack when stomping through the underbrush is sensible, too, while my things that go bump in the night harness has a Terzuola M30A1 and Cold Steel Peace Keeper II, amongst other goodies, hung from it. I think each of these choices make sense in context; there certainly is not a one size fits all solution. Finally, when is a blade too small? I picked up on a CRKT Bear Claw a while back. Basically it's a karambit with the finger hole in the middle of the handle, rather than at the end; the blade length is less than two inches. I sure wouldn't want to go into a street fight armed only with it, but if things went to the ground it'd be a nasty little blade to pull out of a boot and go after connective tissue with. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 4 From: QublwPrime@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:15:35 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: IMHO you are fooling yourself To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Nat Nickele, I agree with you. Most people do not understand two important training concepts: 1. Safety in Training: a. The purpose of training is to make each other better, not to take the opportunity to beat up on a lesser skilled or disadvantaged partner. b. Any type of training which is known to cause health problems down the road should be avoided. 2. Understanding when a critical advantage has been gained, or inversely, when a critical mistake has been made. a. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that must be hit-with- the-brick to understand "Yep, that was a brick". b. The human body is made to move, not to get hit. That is why we do not have body armor like the insects. We are built a certain way and body conditioning can do so much. Weaknesses in the human anatomy discovered of old, are still weaknesses in the human anatomy. Techniques designed to "clock-you", "ring-your- bell", and "put-your-lights-out", can still and will do so. The sum of this is that you cannot training "full-out" on a daily or weekly basis month in and month out. Reality training, or as close to reality as you can get, must be extremely disciplined and closely monitored or else injuries will occur. Hard work, conditioning and endurance training is important, but is not the measure of martial arts skill a little bit more a matter of how smart you are rather than how bull-headed or tough you are. How tough should you be? As tough as you need to be. So what do you have to prove? That you can sustain practice with dihabilitating injuries? And before I forget, what does "IOW" and "IMHO" mean? Shinshi A. Q. Splivid Chippaii Kamau Matsubayashi Kinaadman Ryu Kwoon Toudi, Qattal, & Kali Baltimore, Maryland --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:44:29 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] And now, Italy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof: This from UK's Guardian about a case in Italy-- no gun issues here :-) Crafty ======== Martial arts expert kills two raiders Philip Willan in Rome Monday October 13, 2003 The Guardian A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third. The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction. Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force. The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli. The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment. Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden. At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds. Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung. The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands. Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "barry meadows" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Stick and knife Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:32:14 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You find yourself in a room with a killer coming at you.You both notice a K-bar and a what appears to be a 45 auto in the middle of the room...... you run to center and quickly grab the 45 auto, rolling out of the way of the screaming blood thirsty killer. You turn as he picks up the K-bar, smiling you steadily take aim as he is rushing toward you.......you pause and sqeeze the trigger....it clicks a dreadful empty sound......ohhhhh shiiiii......... A stick sounds good about now...LOL Barry >From: "Sonny Padilla" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Stick and knife >Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:19:32 -0600 > >My decision will be based on my assessment at the time of encounter, if I >happen to get the knife so be it and vice versa, however, use whatever you >get to the best of your advatage. I will also try my very best to prevent >the killer from obtaining any if given the opportunity. > >Sonny Padilla >Kali Ilustrisimo > > > > >>From: Ray Terry >>Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Stick and knife >>Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT) >> >> > This question/senario has been dropped before but I thought it might be >> > interesting as I havnt seen it in while. >> > Hypothectic: >> > You and a killer are locked in a room,in the middle of the room is >>both a >> > stick and a knife,you make a run for a weapon( you can only pick up one >>for >> > the sake of the argument)ok which one do you pick up knowing the killer >>will >> > get the other and you will fight till death? >> > Im all ears!!!!!! >> >>Kinda depends on what type of knife and what type of stick... >> >>In a choice between something like a Gerber Mark II vs. a 12" stick, I'd >>take the Gerber. >> >>But a Swiss Army knife vs. a 28" Bahi stick, I'd take the stick. >> >>Others??? >> >>Ray Terry >>rterry@idiom.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members >>Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >>Standard disclaimers apply >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Page a contact’s mobile phone with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:30 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Dave Wright's push daggers and boxing... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dave Wright wrote "Push daggers and boxing...hmmmm. No, don't box as usual." I assume you mean Western boxing. We would box as usual, because we would use our usual combinations of straight punches, short as well as wide looping hooks, uppercuts, hammers, backfists, low jabs to the groin and thighs, etc. with a generous heaping of live hands at the appropriate moments. Another thing I remind my students : Remember that you are not a push dagger fighter. You are a fighter who happens to have a push dagger in one of your hands. You can also kick, knee, headbutt, bite (to those so inclined), throw, etc. I agree with Mr. Wright that ideally, the battle would probably be against weaponless opponents or one much bigger and stronger opponent (presumably, in both instances the push dagger offsets the disparity of force). I remember writing about or joining in this thread before. I wanted to know if anybody in the list actually "packed" a push dagger. I mentioned that I occasionally practice with (but do not carry) a "Citizen" knife (a combination knfe and push dagger). Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest