Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:19:52 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #367 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. push daggers and boxing...and bad jokes (Nat Nickele) 2. Dave Wright and push daggers (jay de leon) 3. Free-Standing Mook Yan Jong (Khalkee@netscape.net) 4. Re:Dirty Knives LOL (Tom Caulfield) 5. Re: Re:Dirty Knives LOL (Scott Shebby) 6. Re: Mook Jung (Burton Sousa (Toronto)) 7. M00k jong (Phil Hurcum) 8. Re:Dirty Knives LOL (Leo Daher) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:59:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] push daggers and boxing...and bad jokes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net By the way, I forgot to mention that I (along with most of my friends) box using a vertical fist. The way we hold our fists is maybe more comparable to a bareknuckle boxing style. Therefore, the blade of a push dagger would be facing toward the offender. Sorry for the mix up. Very good advice, by the way, to keep the blade away from your face! Opens up opportunity for all sorts of "saving face" jokes. -Nat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:15:54 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Dave Wright and push daggers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Wright, I am afraid (or should it be glad) that there is no debate here, on both your points. (1) Re keeping the hands up, you were talking more about stance, hand placement and guard positions. Very correct. I was not disagreeing with those. I was talking more about the utilization of boxing motions as translated to a push dagger. I no longer have the initial post about using boxing motions to use a push dagger. But I would hazard a guess that the writer did not literally mean to completely mimic everything a boxer (Western, Thai, whatever) would do. I certainly would not recommend boxing techniques like bob and weave (right, with both hands covering the face), or using the push dagger hand to cover against a hook to the head, etc. Again, I would hazard a guess that the writer meant to jab, hook, etc. with the push dagger as a boxer would. (2) Re being a push dagger "fighter," again, you are absolutely correct. The weapon is the primary weapon, and everything else is secondary. If I have a tomahawk in my right hand, I agree the whole idea is to get that tomahawk to do its business, rather than try to knock him out with my left hand (live hand or empty hand). On the other hand, if I were to replace the tomahawk with a push dagger, the lethal-ness and primary-ness of the weapon starts to diminish as compared to the live hand, especially in the light of boxing mimicry. If I throw a right cross (with the right hand with the push dagger) and, say, he takes the hit with the forearm, but I then throw a left hook and knock him out, then you have an example of deploying the primary weapon first, with the secondary weapon finishing the job, as a result of the primary weapon set up. To illustrate the dichotomy of primary vs. secondary weapon, on one hand, gun and live hand, and on the far end of the spectrum, maybe a kubotan and live hand. In the first instance, the role or need of secondary weapon(s) is almost nil or academic (close quarters or extremely poor marksmanship excepted). In the second example, because the primary weapon is not as lethal, the secondary weapon(s) becomes almost a necessary and integral part of the offensive/defensive structure. Mr. Wright, I appreciater the lively discourse. _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:31:12 -0400 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Free-Standing Mook Yan Jong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Try Great Lion, Immortal, and Warrior. I'm not going to repeat comments that I've received from others re: their relative worth/performance. I am working on a "hybrid" using components from Great Lion, BILTUF and a Canadian company. Great Lion has a corner unit and a JKD variant, i.e., with simulated neck/head for more realistic practice of strikes to those target areas. Warrior has similar configuration, less "furniture" but uses space differently due to the orientation of its base. Immortal has a square base, made of recycled plastics ... hard as H and requires a diamond-edged blade to cut/model ... regular config (i.e., no JKD variant). I don't know if the Candian company (building contractors) are making MYJs, I'm just getting a collar/connector from them to use with an old heavy bag stand from BILTUF. Hope that was helpful. I know of some other freestanding units but IMHO they may not be worth the time ... lightweights. OTOH, if anyone knows of substantial units that I haven't mentioned, please advise. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well, mik __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Tom Caulfield" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:55:40 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Dirty Knives LOL Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here in Arizona there are no illegal/prohibited bladed weapons pursuant to Arizona Revised Statue Title 13 specifically ARS 13-3101 http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13 I can only speak to the laws I live under as can you. Your advice is without merit here, at least. In regard to my original assertion, you don't give any cites as to the validity of your argument.... <"Fighting knives (dbl-edged blades, etc.) don't go over well in civilian self defense cases before judges, juries, and possibly an arresting LEO.">. What evidence or statistics are you using to show where an otherwise justified self-defense was ruled as a crime due to using a prohibited bladed weapon. In regards to my two cites where I was involved in incidents with police response, the use of a sword and a 28" Kyber Bowie didn't cause a stir, because the situations justified the threat of leathal force, of course as you say neither weapons are illegal here. I would say that there are few incidents where this has been prosecuted in legitimate self-defense cases. I think maybe as a seperate weapons charge possibly but in justified self-defense it would be rare. It would take only one juror to say that the law was nonsensical as applied to aquit the case, knowing this I think the court would be hesitant to prosecute based on the type of weapon used. The best example I could give here in Arizona on a banned weapon would be the nunchaku. If you were arrested and prosecuted because you used the "illegal" nunchaku in a justified self-defense case I as a juror could say the law is without merit and vote to aquit/dismiss and it would only take that one vote. At least here in Arizona I don't see evidence that the knife is considered dirty in defending one's self. I think individual incidents are judged based on the circumstances. Here when there is a self-defense related death the statements are taken the evidence reviewed and a determination made by the AG's office as to persue prosecution or not. More important here is whether or not your situation justified the use of deadly force an were you reasonable in its use. Thanks, Tom Caulfield Lapu Lapu Vinas Arnis Hanmi Kwan Tang Soo Do --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:23:08 -0700 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Scott Shebby Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Dirty Knives LOL Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 11:55 AM 10/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: Interesting topic..I personally believe that some knives are considered "Dirty". Consider the ban on automatic knives in many states. There are many reasons that it is an illogical ban from a _functionality_ standpoint, but if I remember correctly they were banned because of their prolific use as weapons. Can anyone correct me? -Scott --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Burton Sousa (Toronto)" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:57:36 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Mook Jung Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I have used several "Mook Jung's" from the traditional wall mount to free standing versions and I have found that the most versatile, rugged and easy to move around both for training and to store out of the way for me is, The Warrior. www.thewarrior.com I use it for everything! From JKD trapping/flow drills to boxing/kickboxing target and impact weapons training target/partner it's great. I've had mine for years and still think it's great. Gumagalang, Burton de Castro Sousa --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:20:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] M00k jong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I use a non-traditional mook jong` on and off. I made it myself and have no complaints. I have sold a couple as well! Depending on where you live the material can be quite cheap to make one. If you really have your heart set on a Traditional Ving (Wing) Tsun (Chun) dummy, whichever spelling you prefer/:), you will probably pay alot for it. Where I live, on the Left Coast of Canada, there ar a lot of log home manufacturer's with ends they give away for firewood. Clean up a suitable length, drill your holes with a forstner bit and then get a latheman to turn your arms and you are laffin'. HAHA. I make a box full of concrete, paint the outside black and sink the log in before the 'crete sets. cost me about a hundred bucks tops. 5 arms of 3 sizes, and two bent knee legs. I suppled kiln dried 4x4 doug fir to the turner. Now I do my own turning and it's a little cheaper. Sawmills local to your location may also be able to help you out with "butts" of some type or another. As for traing with one. I like it,when I use it regularily it makes for a pretty intense 3 star blocking drill. Start doing some aggressive trapping/destruction drills and training partners arms melt away pretty quickly. Sorts the wheat from the chaff pretty quick. Lot's of books on how to make them and WingChun.org used to have online plans complete with detailed drawings on how to make them. If they are not there anymore email me and I will see if I can find my copy. Had the angles and everything. Personally not to my taste but I don't have any sort of base in WC! Phil Good Luck Phil Hurcum Ca034 2002-01 King of Small Dogs and Hep Kats Procurer of Useless Information --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Leo Daher" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Dirty Knives LOL Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:49:38 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As far as I know, they were banned because they look "menacing" and because they were frequently displayed by the entertainment media as "weapons of choice of criminals", even though that does not correspond to reality. Same goes for the balisong, the nunchaku, shuriken and so-called "assault weapons" (semi-automatic, military-looking rifles). It's all about perception and appearances. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Shebby To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Dirty Knives LOL At 11:55 AM 10/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: Interesting topic..I personally believe that some knives are considered "Dirty". Consider the ban on automatic knives in many states. There are many reasons that it is an illogical ban from a _functionality_ standpoint, but if I remember correctly they were banned because of their prolific use as weapons. Can anyone correct me? -Scott _______________________________________________ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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