Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:02:08 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #370 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1700 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Polycard Sticks (Larry St. Clair) 2. FWIW (Ray Terry) 3. Eskrima] Synthetic Sticks (Samuel BellJr.) 4. Synthetic Sticks (Phil Hurcum) 5. Stick Recipe (Phil Hurcum) 6. Re: Eskrima digest - My reply (Brett Douglas) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Larry St. Clair" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:31:18 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Polycard Sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I personally have only had two polycarb sticks ever break and it wasn't from hitting stick to stick. They broke from hitting hard objects like trees and metal poles. Also these did not break until after years of pounding so I think they can be good for training depending on the place of origin for the sticks. Also several nice points are that they are wonderful for solo training and have improved mine and many others grip for sparring. They work well within insulation for stick grappling because they bow just a little. Not too mention the fact that they don't get torn up like rattan does. I would agree though that if you have weak wrists or have not used them to go slow at first because if you are not used to the reverb, partner drills could be discomforting at first. Try them out and see what you think, just be careful. Thanks, Larry --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] FWIW Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FWIW, I cannot personally recommend P.Greg or anything with which he is involved, but here is info. Caveat emptor. ======================================================== Get Certification by Grand Master Jerson Nene Tortal, Kali Silat. In preparation for Grand Master Jerson 'Nene' Tortal's US Tour a special Instructor Training Program is being conducted March 5th - 9th, 2004 in Virginia Beach, VA - That's March 5 - 9th is a one in a lifetime event. Five days of intensive training in Kali and two days with Grand Master Tortal for completion and promotion, under GrMaster Tortal. Do not miss this event. Visit http://KaliSilat.com/program.html - This is a one time event that will permit Kali Silat instructor guru and instructor candidate guru to be certified under the signature of Grand Master Tortal during his tour in the US. First program in late March or early April in Connecticut, then to New York / New Jersey, Virginia Beach, VA, Winston-Salem, NC and Florida. From Florida to Missouri, then Illinois and back to New Jersey around May 8th of 2004. This is a tentative schedule and no one has been notified as of this date. -- Regards, P. Greg Alland, Producer, Lecturer The World Kali Silat Society PO Box 121 Virginia Beach, VA 23458 (Voice Mail Cell) 917 204 5254 INSTRUCTOR DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM MARCH 5th thru 9th, 2004 Free Downloads and Listing at: http://KaliSilat.com and http://PekitiTirsia.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Samuel BellJr." To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:27:50 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima] Synthetic Sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have any experience with Stickman's Panther II's?  I am waiting on a pair from him.  I agree, there is nothing in the world like the smell of rattan sticks in full contact.  Thanks,  Sam --- Samuel BellJr.--- jsbelljr83@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.  --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Synthetic Sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know what the name of it is, apparently it is a sort of a rebar for special concrete work. It has a snakeskin, cloudy kind of grey smoke effect running through the mainly black rods. It is a plastic. I have used it for about 7 years on and off with no shattering and very little reverb. I looked on the net at different prices and then did what they did. Phoned a plastic supply company and got the same "space age technology" from a "cutting edge production facility." For a wholsale price. Rattan being the price it is here, can get expensive when you are fighting all the time. I prefer the rattan but I train with different things. Phil Phil Hurcum Ca034 2002-01 King of Small Dogs and Hep Kats Procurer of Useless Information --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Stick Recipe Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A quick note for all who responded. I have succesfully completed my second batch of sticks that make grade. I have found that blowtorching is best left for the final process and only as ornament. At least for the rattan I am using which is a "b" grade apparently. We will be fighting minimal armour tonight and see how that goes. If this psot doesn't belong here please excuse me. Hurcum Phil Hurcum Ca034 2002-01 King of Small Dogs and Hep Kats Procurer of Useless Information --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Brett Douglas" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:53:35 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest - My reply Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hello Mike Koblic > Pardon the private email, but a friend of mine forwarded the > discussion on European manuals to me so I thought I would respond > directly to you as I do not belong to the elist the text came from. > > First, a truthism I have learned from studying both FMA and > WMA, "There are only some many effective ways to swing a sword, so > commonalities abound." IMHO, to many people look for a connection or > linage where there is none. > > I study with Dexter Labanog (4 years) for escrima and have spent 5 > years studying WMA. The areas of focus in WMA is the manual by > Joseph Swetnam (1617), Sigmund Ringnecks material (1385) and > Manuscript 1.33 (1250?) translated by Stephen Hand. > > Manuals: > Here is a link to a seller of many translated manuals, > http://www.revival.us/store.asp. > > The oldest manual currently known is this one, > http://www.revival.us/product.asp?3=113, it is on sword and buckler. > I have taken a couple of seminars from the translator and interpreter > Stephen Hand and am signed up for another one in Ashland Oregon in > November. The material is highly effective. > > Sigmund Ringneck's material on Johannes Liechtenauer, > http://www.revival.us/product.asp?0=216 > &1=227&3=11> &1=227&3=11 is also > excellent. The translator and interpreter admits to publishing > sooner than he thought wise and has changed many of his > interpretations of techniques, but the core material is there. > Paladin Press also has an interpretation of Ringnecks Longsword out > as well. There is not an easy 1 to 1 for WMA longsword to FMA so I > cannot say there is a comparison to be made. The Liechtenauer > material is the basis for the German school of fence and so the > material Jacob Meyers and Hans Talhoffer set down is very similar. > The greatest difference is that Liechtenauer's material is > more 'basic'. > > It seems to me that the farther the material gets from being purely > military to civilian fencing the more complex it gets. Another good > example is George Silvers (1585 and 1599) writings. His is a > military type system were as the Spanish and Italian rapier fence is > purely, some say mostly, civilian. > > The Spanish school of rapier is very interesting, George Silver says > it is the closest to the true fight or any style of rapier, but I do > not believe it would have had any kind of influence in FMA. First, > the Spanish school of rapier was aristocratic, so the likelihood of > period Filipino's coming up against the style would have been > severely limited if at all. The Spanish also recognized that the > rapier was not a military weapon, again limiting contact. And at the > time of Magellan Spain had just finished the Reconquesta and had > thousands of veteran soldiers familiar with the sword and shield, not > rapier, to ship off on explorations. Thus, for me, most likely that > Filipinos were exposed to far more sword and shield than rapier and > dagger. There might have been some exposure to Spanish sword and > dagger, but my reading of Silver and Saviolo (look up "Three > Elizabethan Fencing Manuals" at Amazon) leads me to suspect that > sword and dagger was not much in favor by military types as they both > tend to be against its use in combat as it is weak defensively > against the blow. As to the thrusting styles in escrima I have seen, > sonkete (sp), it reminds me much more of turn of the century bayonet > fencing, which the Filipinos would have been greatly exposed to by > American forces form 1890 on. > > Dagger work in the European systems. It is my view that the > dominance of thrusting with the dagger comes mainly from the fact of > the type of clothing (and armor) worn during those periods. A quick > cut or slice with a light knife simply will not cut through several > layers of linen, wool, etc., commonly warn during the period. Having > my own period European costume I can attest to that as well as > cutting experience against targets. Thus the dominance of thrusts. > The closest thing to the European thrusting style is the pocket stick > style I am learning from Dexter. That is the striking patterns and > defenses (blocks, strips, locks) are mostly the same, just played a > little farther out in the European system due to the longer length of > weapon. This has helped me greatly in understanding the European > dagger work. > > Foot work. Mostly, WMA foot work is made up of passing steps, > gathering steps, slipping steps which really do look like FMA > triangle stepping. This also seems to be the standard that other WMA > practitioners are coming around to by their own experiences. The > deep lunges displayed in some of the rapier manuscripts work great on > floors, however carried out doors onto uneven ground, grass, dirt, > etc., proves to be a rather risky thing to do as your heel can easily > slip. The lunges then become large gathering steps forward, a much > safer thing to do. The crossing steps, demi voltes and voltes, are > the only crossing steps I know of in European arts and only really > work with a thrust (unless you find yourself needing to cross a large > amount of ground away in a hurry then anything works then). > > One last bit, all the names us modern types have given to period > swords, rapier, cut and thrust swords, riding sword, backswords, > longsword, etc., are mostly modern conventions. Swetnam simply > breaks things down to rapier, swort sword and longsword and sometimes > interchanges rapier and longsword. > > Well, I have been a bit long with this email and likely not very > clear on any subject, so if you want to fire away with a few > questions go ahead. I will respond as I can. > > Cheers > Jim --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest