Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:50:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #410 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: VEE DO KWAN (Felipe Jocano) 2. Squadron Shop in Manila (Melvin Lee) 3. Mat Marinas & whip (jay de leon) 4. Studying (Ray Terry) 5. FMA Training Progressions (steve kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:16:33 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] VEE DO KWAN To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Francis; I also visited the VeedoKwan site, and I thought it was interesting as well. Your question, however is thought-provoking....It raises the issue of what is an FMA? For a martial art to be called an FMA, should the training sequence always be from weapon training to empty-hand? For me, this is not really necessary. Granted, the most well-known of the FMAs are kali/arnis/eskrima, in which this training progression is observed. But there are other FMAs in which this sequence is reversed. For example, there are silat styles from Mindanao in which the training begins with empty hands first and then goes on to weapons as the student proceeds with his or her training. Then there are the various indigenized martial arts in which empty-hand training also comes first and then weapons are studied later. I am referring to the various transplanted forms of karate and kickboxing (and even aikido) that have been transformed from their original form. The system founders studied these systems and then began adding their insights over the years of study and practice until finally they came out with what they felt was a new style. I might also point out that there is an FMA that is a grappling style too - bultong from the Ifugao region of the Cordillera. Of the latter, there aren't too many practitioners yet, but they are keen on promoting the art as widely as possible. I don't think that there should be only one way to characterize an FMA considering the diversity of styles available. At the risk of sounding parochial though, I would call a martial art an FMA if it were either evolved under local conditions (historical, cultural, etc.) in the Philippines (arni/kali/eskrima, silat, kuntaw, etc.) or if it were indigenized to fit such conditions (i.e., karate and kickboxing transformed to meet local needs). To define such, one would have to be familiar with the social and historical circumstances of the art's development, i.e., did it develop to meet and counter local threats, as a response to the combat styles of outsiders, who were the key individuals responsible for the development of the art, what are the key principles (if these are openly shared), what sort of shared cultural values are present, etc. Anyway, just my opinion.... Regards, Bot > But I was wondering what are your thoughts on this. > In order to call it a > Filipino Martial Arts, should the trainning or > educating of the students > start with a weapon (knife, olisi, etc...) and then > progressed to empty > hands? Just curious. > > Gumagalang, > Francis "T. Jay" Serrano > > "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing > but the sanction you give > it." > > -Ayn > Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957 > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type > image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type > Image/jpeg which had a name of oldies13.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:51:20 -0800 (PST) From: Melvin Lee To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Squadron Shop in Manila Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Delurking. Hi. A cousin of mine will be travelling to Manila on vacation soon. I'm hoping to send her on a shopping errand to the Squadron Shop for some FMA equipment. Can anyone give me directions on how to locate the shop? The directions should be comprehensive enough to help a first time tourist in Manila locate the place. Also, I'd like to know if the shop is located in a relatively safe area in the city. I don't want my pretty cousin to take any unnecessary risks for my sake. Thanks in advance. ===== Mel peg8109@yahoo.com Penang Malaysia __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:42:19 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Mat Marinas & whip Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I know GM Marinas and have been to several of his seminars. In one of these, he did a whip demo using a Philippine "calesa" whip. These are the whips that "calesa" (horse-drawn buggies or carts, sometimes called "carretelas") drivers used. The few times that I actually rode a "calesa," the driver never actually whipped the horse; he used it mostly to make the cracking sound and banged the handle against the side of the cart just to make the horse go a wee bit faster. I am old enough to remember that a long time ago, commercial "calesas" were still available for transportation in Manila itself. Now they are a relic of the past, and you have to go to the provinces to ride one. Going back to GM Marinas' whip, he also had "poppers" he attached at the end, like mini-firecrackers. The "calesa" whip is fairly light and one can probably take a few hits and just walk away with minor welts, but in tandem with a knife (as in latigo y daga) in the hands of an experienced practitioner, it is a lethal partner. Jay de Leon formerly of Greater Manila, Pangasinan and Cotabato _________________________________________________________________ Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:31:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Studying Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I did not know that the late Professor Vee studied > under Punong Guro Mat Marinas. Was this Pungong > Guro's Pananandata system? I think the statement was that Danny P. studied under Mat Marinas. Not that Prof. Vee studied under Mat. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:40:23 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Training Progressions Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bot, The beauty of the FMAs is that you can literally start anywhere at all within most systems. This is especially useful for a teacher that understands that "teaching as you've been taught" will only work if your student thinks as you do. I used to think that starting with weapons might not be necessary. In time I came to realize that training your empty hand motions with weapons makes it much easier for the novice to see the motions since they are generally wider than their empty hand translations. Again though...it really depends on the needs and level of understanding of your students. That is really the most important thing...in my opinion. Best, Steve Kohn >From: Felipe Jocano >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] VEE DO KWAN >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:16:33 -0800 (PST) > >Hi Francis; >I also visited the VeedoKwan site, and I thought it >was interesting as well. Your question, however is >thought-provoking....It raises the issue of what is an >FMA? For a martial art to be called an FMA, should the >training sequence always be from weapon training to >empty-hand? For me, this is not really necessary. >Granted, the most well-known of the FMAs are >kali/arnis/eskrima, in which this training progression >is observed. But there are other FMAs in which this >sequence is reversed. For example, there are silat >styles from Mindanao in which the training begins with >empty hands first and then goes on to weapons as the >student proceeds with his or her training. Then there >are the various indigenized martial arts in which >empty-hand training also comes first and then weapons >are studied later. I am referring to the various >transplanted forms of karate and kickboxing (and even >aikido) that have been transformed from their original >form. The system founders studied these systems and >then began adding their insights over the years of >study and practice until finally they came out with >what they felt was a new style. I might also point out >that there is an FMA that is a grappling style too - >bultong from the Ifugao region of the Cordillera. Of >the latter, there aren't too many practitioners yet, >but they are keen on promoting the art as widely as >possible. >I don't think that there should be only one way to >characterize an FMA considering the diversity of >styles available. At the risk of sounding parochial >though, I would call a martial art an FMA if it were >either evolved under local conditions (historical, >cultural, etc.) in the Philippines (arni/kali/eskrima, >silat, kuntaw, etc.) or if it were indigenized to fit >such conditions (i.e., karate and kickboxing >transformed to meet local needs). To define such, one >would have to be familiar with the social and >historical circumstances of the art's development, >i.e., did it develop to meet and counter local >threats, as a response to the combat styles of >outsiders, who were the key individuals responsible >for the development of the art, what are the key >principles (if these are openly shared), what sort of >shared cultural values are present, etc. >Anyway, just my opinion.... >Regards, >Bot > > > But I was wondering what are your thoughts on this. > > In order to call it a > > Filipino Martial Arts, should the trainning or > > educating of the students > > start with a weapon (knife, olisi, etc...) and then > > progressed to empty > > hands? Just curious. > > > > Gumagalang, > > Francis "T. Jay" Serrano > > > > "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing > > but the sanction you give > > it." > > > > -Ayn > > Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957 > > > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type > > image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] > > > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type > > Image/jpeg which had a name of oldies13.jpg] > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest