Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:21:04 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #11 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re:Thoughts on Martial Arts World Games/ FMA event (Steven Hacht) 2. Martial vs Arts (Phil Hurcum) 3. Re: Thoughts on Martial Arts World Games/ FMA event (mark pineda) 4. Pekiti vs Dekiti (Emil Johan Fisk) 5. Doce Pares associations (Emil Johan Fisk) 6. RE: mobility (Patrick Davies) 7. Re: Friday's Provocation (Buz Grover) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Steven Hacht" To: Cc: "Ken Pannell" Subject: Re:[Eskrima] Thoughts on Martial Arts World Games/ FMA event Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:54:13 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Harris, Look forward to you attending the Kali World Games , part of the Arnold Battle of Columbus Martial Arts World Games. My name is Guro Steve Hacht, I help run the event under direction of my instructor Guro Ken Pannell. Let me see if I can answer some of your questions: "Were the FMA represented with fairness, equal time and respect?" Absolutely. Though we are part of a much larger whole (many arts/styles are represented), we have always been treated with the utmost respect at this event. "Were FMA present as active judges or were the FMA events judged by members of different disciplines? [Note: No disrespect intended here to other systems. I believe it’s a fair question to see if FMA with in-depth knowledge of our art will be on hand as active participants especially during forms and competition judging.]" Most definitely. We have total control over our event. We have active instructors of Various FMA systems Judging our event. We also firmly believe in "No Politics" at our event. We are all brothers here and will enforce our edict (No Politics) to ensure that everyone enjoys this event. We also firmly believe that the more diversity, the better our event becomes. We invite any and all FMA instructors/practitioners to participate. We also love to have this diversity present on our judging panel. If an FMA instructor wishes to help us with Judging or Refereeing we certainly welcome the help. We only ask they allow us to familiarize them on the rules we have set up for the event. "Were there many competitors in the 35 and older category?" We had a few last year. Though I cannot remember the exact number. "Why is there no knife sparring competition?" The Arnold Battle of Columbus Martial Arts Word Games is a large event, and has geared itself more and more to being a "Family Event". You have many children attending this event, and though we may look at incorporating blade events sometime in the future we felt that Knife Sparring sometimes gets a little to graphic for some of the spectators. We do showcase the bladed arts with demonstrations (Last year we were honored to have representatives from Sayoc Kali as well as Atienza Kali present to demonstrate their skills). We also impose no limitations on use of the blade during Forms or Self Defense divisions. I hope I have helped answer some of your questions. If you need further information you can email me directly from our website: www.asianfightingarts.com You can also access a full copy of the rules for each event in the Kali division on our website. Gumagalang, Guro Steve Hacht Asian Fighting Arts --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:36:09 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Martial vs Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am very interested in this particular thread. The discussion of relevant skills vs. artistic expression is one that continually rears it's head, not just here but on a variety of forums I lurk on. To take a small sideways shuffle, or perhaps look at the topic in a new light, what are the most relevant clips in modern movies that show realism in action and not a dream sequence catering to kurotty and kung fool fans everywhere. ( This is not a slam on either art, just an expression indicating perception of said arts) My personal three: "He Got Game": The sequence when the father is talking to the basketball scout in front of his son's school. When the younger agressor steps in close to intimidate the father steps to meet him with a very short and wickedly applied elbow, followed by two more blows and then a quick jog for conditioning. Done quickly, no John Wayne speeches, minimal effort. "Punch Drunk Love": The first time Adam Sandler sees the aggressors, they are so far inside his head as to push him beyond rational thought. His initial encounter leaves him crazed. However the nexttime he meets with them he is afraid for the woman he loves. With little wasted effort and a clarity of thought beautifully expressed he meets with and ably deals with the first and second attackers. He then makes his position extremely clear to the ringleader and last of the attackers. Again in the space of 15 seconds and no monologues. Finally, "The Big Lebowski." When the crazy german techno dudes finally attack in the parking lot after bowling. John Goodman envelopes his particular choice in a bearhug and proceeds to bite/rip the attackers ear into the sky. While the media of the moving picture has been twisted so many ways the relevancy or relation to real life is sometimes greater than the space between heaven and earth. Sometimes there is a truth showing through. Any takers? Phil Phil Hurcum Ca034 2002-01 King of Small Dogs and Hep Kats Procurer of Useless Information --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:35:34 -0800 From: "mark pineda" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Thoughts on Martial Arts World Games/ FMA event Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I watched the competition last year and I was very disappointed. The fighting was not very impressive at all. The majority of the fighters would take a stick shot and then do standing grappling. The stick work and skill was non-existent. I would assume that if there was very little protective gear, it would have been better. It seemed like just a bunch of grapplers who picked up a stick and said it was escrima fighting. Save your time and money and don't compete in the Arnold Battle of Columbus. Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:44:58 +0800 From: Emil Johan Fisk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pekiti vs Dekiti Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There was a short post on this in a forum at PTK's European branch website. http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net The link to the forum is on the left side, and the thread is on the bottom of the page. It is particularly interesting to note Mandala Rommel Tortal's response. I know a bit more of the story, but mine opinion may be biased as I have practiced GT Leo Gaje's Pekiti Tirsia Kali. Sincerely, Emil Fisk ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail has been sent via JARING webmail at http://www.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:53:18 +0800 From: Emil Johan Fisk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares associations Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I was trying to find some information about Doce Pares, having talked to my instructor about going over there sometime soon. However, I found references to both Dionisio Canete's Doce Pares International and Cacoy Canete's Doce Pares Federation. Although the histories appear similar up to the point of Eulogio Canete's passing in 1988, after that the stories differ somewhat. Did the DPF change names to the DPI or are these two separate organizations? I'm guessing on the latter since Doce Pares International's website makes no mention whatsoever of Cacoy Canete. Are there two separate organizations? Does Cacoy Canete have an official homepage? (docepares.com is down) Is Cacoy still teaching? I would like to hear any other information anyone's willing to share. Thank you. Sincerely, Emil Fisk ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail has been sent via JARING webmail at http://www.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:05 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: mobility Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sounds like you are trying to hit too hard and therefore are too tight. Get your training partner to lighten off and relax more. One instructor I trained under gets his students to start of hit for hit at about 10-15% and after a while these guys just flow in their sparring with ease and read the body mechanics. I have used it with some students and had success especially when I get guys in from other schools who are trying to smash everyone. If you are worried about the hit that's coming you can never experiment or relax, so just turn down the volume (not the speed) and do more rounds! Good luck Pat Davies HI, > I am humbled today by the fact that I got the snot beat out of me yesterday yet again. My problem is my lack of mobility. I am having a hard --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:32:22 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Friday's Provocation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ste O writes: > I feel that in any society where any tom dick or harriet can carry a > cassull 454, doesn't that lead to a society of further paranoia and > need for gun ownership? I'm not so sure about the paranoia stuff, but all the people listing toward their carry side hip because they're packing some monster .454 would sure make a lot of chiropractors happy. As that may be, the .454 argument is something of a straw man. The fact is that in US "shall issue" concealed carry states folks don't flock to strap on the biggest piece of ironmongery money can buy. Rather, if memory serves, somewhere between 3 and 5 percent of eligible, law abiding, citizens obtain a carry permit. My guess is that most don't carry 24/7 and I imagine most, with apologies to Dirty Harry, don a firearm that carries easily and conceals well. That 3 to 5 percent of eligible citizens who occasionally carry firearms, however, have a dramatic impact on crime in the US. Every state that has passed a "shall issue" law has seen a drop in violent crime, and the degree of that drop corresponds significantly with the percentage of the population with permits: the greater the carry percentage, the greater the drop in violent crime. An FMA listserve isn't the place to explore all the ramifications of firearm ownership and concealed carry. Authors Gary Kleck and John Lott have each rigorously researched the subject and have both published quite a bit about it. I don't want to imply, moreover, that concealed carry brings nothing but benefits. Though crimes like armed robbery and burglary of occupied dwellings drop, in some places--and for reasons that should be fairly easy to deduce--car theft and burglary of unoccupied dwellings rises. In short any discussion of concealed carry involves numerous variables, benefits, and costs that require more than a couple of paragraphs to convey. I urge anyone interested in the topic to look up the authors mentioned above, and to check out their critics, too. I'd like to also suggest that Ste O got causality reversed when mentioning the assault his partner endured. The bad guy who flung the floor cleaner knew full well that there was little likelihood he would encounter an armed victim. Indeed, in the UK someone who resists crime with a firearm is more likely to contend with legal consequences than a fellow flinging floor cleaner. As such the bad guy knew his crude projectile weapon would trump any weapon he probably would encounter. And hey, if he did get shot while committing a crime the British government would pay his legal expenses if he elected to sue the person who shot him. Perhaps if British citizens were allowed to defend themselves with firearms more British criminals would carry guns instead of floor cleaner. But those criminals would also understand that at some point in their vocation they will encounter an armed victim who may well end their predatory ways. My guess is that British criminals would modify their behavior, as have their brethren in US "shall issue" states. I'm also not sure about Ste's statement that crime rose after the UK's comprehensive ban and continued to rise until 2003. The last reporting I read is that gun crime continues to rise in Great Britain, but that the rate of that rise is slowing. Supporters of the ban cite this slower growth as some sort of pyrhic evidence that the ban is working, though my take is victory can't be declared until crime rates drop below the pre-ban level. Everyone can't be committing gun crime all the time so of course at some point the rate of increase will slow, but that's hardly the time to claim your cause is vindicated IMHO. With that said, I want to make it clear that I respect Ste's opinion and understand that guns make a lot of people nervous. I also realize most folks would prefer not to contemplate the possibility of armed confrontation and would just as soon leave the business of confronting armed bad guys to the government and the police. Moreover I understand that a lot of people figure that if there were no guns there would be no gun crime. I think the equation is a lot more complicated than that, but realize most people don't have the desire to sort it out, particularly when so much of the press prefers to present a simple fiction rather than the complex truth. In short I respect people's right to have opinions differing from mine and would defend that right by force of arms if need be. I'd like to suggest, however, that when the government, the press, and right thinking people all start singing from the same hymnal it's probably time to take a hard look at the song. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest