Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:33:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #13 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Friday's provocation (Todd Ellner) 2. Left Handers (Jeetkunedo55@aol.com) 3. Today's provocation ;-) (Marc Denny) 4. RE: Doce Pares (Bobster) 5. Re: Re: Friday's Provocation (Buz Grover) 6. Re: RE: Doce Pares (troy bates) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Todd Ellner To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:34:23 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Friday's provocation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I don't know anyone who carries a .454 or even .45. Lots of folks I know > carry the Smith .40 (Glock 22). Big guns just don't conceal very well. If > the gun isn't comfortable and concealable you aren't as eager to carry it > around with you. I do. With the right sort of clothing and attention to concealment you can carry a 1911 or Glock 21 very discreetly. And there are some really nice, small .45s . --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Jeetkunedo55@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:53:23 EST To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Left Handers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm starting to work with the sticks with my 11 year old son, I'm right handed and he is left handed and I'm having a heck of a time with it especially the disarms any suggestions on how to deal with this or should I train with my left hand for the experience. I've never trained with a lefty before and its funny what a challenge it is. Thanks in advance for any and all info. Randy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:12:12 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Today's provocation ;-) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: " Authors Gary Kleck and John Lott have each rigorously researched the subject and have both published quite a bit about it." I'm not familiar with Kleck, but would add my recommendation of Lott. He's a law professor with a solid background and has done some solid, serious work in this area. And concerning the changes in the UK: a philosophy of disarming the people does not stand alone. Perhaps the following is related? BEGIN http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=480364 Big Brother Britain, 2004 Four million CCTV cameras watch public. UK has the highest level of surveillance By Maxine Frith, Social Affairs Correspondent 12 January 2004 Big Brother Britain, 2004 How average Briton is caught on camera 300 times a day Leading article: Farewell to privacy - civil liberties and the secret revolution More than four million surveillance cameras monitor our every move, making Britain the most-watched nation in the world, research has revealed. The number of closed circuit television (CCTV) cameras has quadrupled in the past three years, and there is now one for every 14 people in the UK. The increase is happening at twice the predicted rate, and it is believed that Britain accounts for one-fifth of all CCTV cameras worldwide. Estimates suggest that residents of a city such as London can each expect to be captured on CCTV cameras up to 300 times a day, and much of the filming breaches existing data guidelines. Civil liberties groups complain that the rules governing the use of the cameras in Britain are the most lax in the world. They say that, in contrast to other countries, members of the public are often unaware they are being filmed, and are usually ignorant of the relevant regulations. They also argue that there is little evidence to support the contention that CCTV cameras lead to a reduction in crime rates. Barry Hugill, a spokesman for the human rights and civil liberties organisation Liberty, said: "This proliferation of cameras is simply astounding. The use of CCTV has just exploded in the last few years, and what is terrifying is that we are alone in the world for not even having a debate about what it means for our privacy." Professor Clive Norris, deputy director of the Centre for Criminological Research in Sheffield, presented the new research at an international conference on CCTV at Sheffield Universityon Saturday. Professor Norris conducted a study in 2001 which predicted that the number of cameras would double from one million to two million by 2004. But his most recent study concludes that there are now "at least" 4,285,000 cameras in operation - double his earlier prediction. There are no official government figures for the number of CCTV systems in Britain, but Professor Norris used a detailed study of surveillance cameras in London to calculate his figure. The research formed part of a European-wide URBANEYE project on the use of CCTV. Professor Norris said: "We are the most-watched nation in the world. One of the surprising findings was how much more control there is in other countries, such as America and France, compared to Britain. "Other countries have been much more wary about CCTV, because of long-held concepts such as freedom of expression and assembly. These seem to be alien concepts in here." The use of cameras to film people in the street is banned in Germany, Canada and several other countries. But it is accepted practice in Britain, which is alone in not having a privacy law that protects people against constant surveillance. The Data Protection Act states that the public has to be informed that CCTV systems are in operation, and be told how they can exercise their legal right to see their own footage. But civil rights groups said many councils, shops and businesses were failing to provide this information, and they estimated that up to 70 per of CCTVcamera operators were breaking the rules. Some shopping-centre security guards use the cameras to track "socially undesirable" people, such as groups of teenage boys or rough sleepers, around stores, and then eject them even if they have done nothing wrong. Professor Norris warned: "The use of these practices represents a shift from formal and legally regulated measures of crime control towards private and unaccountable justice." Footage from the cameras has also been passed to newspapers and television companies without people's permission. Professor Norris said: "CCTV is generally seen as benign rather than as Big Brother-style surveillance. "We need to have a much wider debate about exactly what CCTV is doing in terms of our privacy and our society. "It is about much more than crime. It enables people to be tracked and monitored and harassed and socially excluded on the basis that they do not fit into the category of people that a council or shopping centre wants to see in a public space." Over the past decade, the Home Office has handed out millions of pounds in grants to police forces and councils to install CCTV systems in the belief it will reduce and prevent crime. But Mr Hugill said: "All that CCTV does is shift the crime to another area for a bit, and then it returns. If you asked most people, they would rather see the Government spending the money on more police officers than on installing cameras, which do not appear to make much difference anyway." END yip! Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:58:04 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Doce Pares Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"Although the histories appear similar up to the point of Eulogio Canete's passing in 1988, after that the stories differ somewhat. Did the DPF change names to the DPI or are these two separate organizations? I'm guessing on the latter since Doce Pares International's website makes no mention whatsoever of Cacoy Canete."< Hi Emil. The original Doce Pares was formed in 1932, and several people have splintered off from that and formed styles of their own. The thing to keep in mind is that the 1932 Doce Pares was a conglomerate of styles, various members bringing in thier specialty. One guy was great at Largo Mano, one guy was good at Corto, some people knew Pangamot really well, etc. Over the decades, Cacoy started to specialize in Corto Kurbada, a kind of close range style with curving strikes and stick locking with throws. Because of his background in various grappling arts, this became a unique style of his own. Grandmaster Cacoy teaches this method primarily, with little or no emphasis on the traditional curriculum since it advocates several points that he has found to be hindering in actual combat. Dionisio preserves much of the 1932 curriculum, as well as modern methods ands sparring. This is probably the biggest difference. Cacoy doesn't teach forms, he doesn't teach largo, many other things. You will often hear Dionisio's system called "Doce Pares Multi Style", and his teaching method reflects that. He utilizes the original teachings of his father, Eulogio, although he has trained with Grandmaster Cacoy as well. The two have had a kind of falling out, and as with most disagreements within families, things have gotten bitter between them over the years. Sometimes thier students reflect this by arguing between the organizations as to who is better than whom. The trick is to realize this is between THEM not US. Unless you last name is Canete, it has nothing to do with you. I myself am a student of Cacoy, but over the past few years I have made several friends in the other organization as well. We train, share knowledge, watch movies & drink beer. So I would say, personally, do both. The style of Grandmaster Cacoy is unique, and his ability is phenomenal. He is indeed known as the fighter, and this is what attracted me to his style to begin with, and I have stayed with it because I enjoy sparring. Diony is an excellent teacher, with lot's to offer as well, and I have learned quite a bit from his guys over the years. Hope this helps. Good luck in your training! Bobbe Edmonds "I’ll fight ‘till from my bones my flesh be hacked. Give me my armor." –MacBeth Act V Scene III --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:02:47 -0500 From: Buz Grover Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Friday's Provocation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve writes: > True. I think one of the best benefits of "Brady" was the limitation > of magazines to 10. Manufacturers took that to mean "how small of a gun > can we make and still fit all 10 bullets". Yeah, I've often thought that provision of the Brady Bill was so sensible that we should use it as a model to battle other social ills. Limiting the size of shot glasses, for instance, would no doubt decrease the incidence of alcoholism. Perhaps the diameter of crack pipes could be similarly legislated. Other provisions of the Brady Bill could be similarly adapted. Maybe we could demand that automakers put bayonet lugs, "flash hiders," and pistol grips on SUVs. We could then declare them to be assault weapons and ban those gas guzzlers from use. Yep, that old Brady Bill has 101 uses. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:14:42 -0800 (PST) From: troy bates Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Doce Pares To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Emil, I suggest that you examine both styles of Doce Pares as well as San Miguel eskrima, older style that was used by Filemon Canete based more on stick and dagger. There's a Dionisio school based in Sacramento ,Ca. They also have a webpage that links to the International websites. In order to find a student of Cacoy's, I suggest you type in the name Anthony Kleemen. He's based somewhere in Los Angeles and he's an excellent teacher! Bobster wrote: >"Although the histories appear similar up to the point of Eulogio Canete's passing in 1988, after that the stories differ somewhat. Did the DPF change names to the DPI or are these two separate organizations? I'm guessing on the latter since Doce Pares International's website makes no mention whatsoever of Cacoy Canete."< Hi Emil. The original Doce Pares was formed in 1932, and several people have splintered off from that and formed styles of their own. The thing to keep in mind is that the 1932 Doce Pares was a conglomerate of styles, various members bringing in thier specialty. One guy was great at Largo Mano, one guy was good at Corto, some people knew Pangamot really well, etc. Over the decades, Cacoy started to specialize in Corto Kurbada, a kind of close range style with curving strikes and stick locking with throws. Because of his background in various grappling arts, this became a unique style of his own. Grandmaster Cacoy teaches this method primarily, with little or no emphasis on the traditional curriculum since it advocates several points that he has found to be hindering in actual combat. Dionisio preserves much of the 1932 curriculum, as well as modern methods ands sparring. This is probably the biggest difference. Cacoy doesn't teach forms, he doesn't teach largo, many other things. You will often hear Dionisio's system called "Doce Pares Multi Style", and his teaching method reflects that. He utilizes the original teachings of his father, Eulogio, although he has trained with Grandmaster Cacoy as well. The two have had a kind of falling out, and as with most disagreements within families, things have gotten bitter between them over the years. Sometimes thier students reflect this by arguing between the organizations as to who is better than whom. The trick is to realize this is between THEM not US. Unless you last name is Canete, it has nothing to do with you. I myself am a student of Cacoy, but over the past few years I have made several friends in the other organization as well. We train, share knowledge, watch movies & drink beer. So I would say, personally, do both. The style of Grandmaster Cacoy is unique, and his ability is phenomenal. He is indeed known as the fighter, and this is what attracted me to his style to begin with, and I have stayed with it because I enjoy sparring. Diony is an excellent teacher, with lot's to offer as well, and I have learned quite a bit from his guys over the years. Hope this helps. Good luck in your training! Bobbe Edmonds "I’ll fight ‘till from my bones my flesh be hacked. Give me my armor." –MacBeth Act V Scene III _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest