Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #19 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Oracion/Anting anting (Alex Ercia) 2. Re: martial arts cults (Marc Macyoung) 3. Re: Oracion/Anting anting (Ray Terry) 4. Wrist Strength (Fred O) 5. The BArbarians on the History channel (Doug Marcaida) 6. RE: Friday's provocation (T2J2M2@cs.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:41:36 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Oracion/Anting anting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is not true that great many manongs would not believe in oracion or anting anting because of their religious belief. I know a lot of them in the Philippines would use this before they would fight. It is just secretly hidden. Because they pick people they like to give these things. It is considered sacred. If offered to you, you can either accept or decline. It is just your choice. I was offered such oraciones but I declined. It just not much exposed here in the United States. Just my two cents. Alex _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: martial arts cults Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc MacYoung > From: "Cogie Gutierrez" > I know my reply is off topic, but I do hope to share something > Usually when the art is "exported" some place else, only the self defense > aspect is usually being taught. > FMA especially arnis has different oracions "spells" to make them > invincible in combat. How's that working for them? Or is the 45 still an effective counter to magick? Having been a student of the history of warfare, what I can tell you is that there is always acomponent of hyping the troops up with you are the biggest, the baddest, the most untouchable. The ol' Marine attitude if you die the Corp will still live on was a form of immortality and invincibility. Unfortunately, the strongest jujus don't necessarily work to keep you alive: The Ghost Shirt dance of the American Indians, the Boxer Rebellion and the Moros Invincibilty in battle is a myth, but it serves a very important role in psychology of the poor slob who is heading into it. Unfortunately, if you believe that myth, then you are in some deep trouble. > In Malaysia alone, Silat is considered to be more than a martial art, it > is a way of life, the source of medical advice, etc. It is considered as > a form of religion, that you pray to spirits, do chants and the like > You can't just study the art alone without embracing its religious > beliefs. Except for some forms which has evolved to a science, majority > confirms to its spirituality. Here I thought that cultural/famial/social/life multi-generational teaching was also a critical component of it as well. Your uncle not only teaches you the martial arts, but while doing so gives you the life teachings to function within that particular society. This is done, not to make you an ultimate warrior, but instead to create someone who know how to --and can do -- what is necessary in order to be a part of that particular society. (Being an adult is hard work and the values you get from MA training can really help you get through the challenges that adults face in life). I say this because I do have friends from-- and in -- Indonesia and Malaysia and like places. What they speak of regarding their training is more of an anthropological or sociological nature than spiritual. As I understand it, although there are often indeed religious overtones/influences etc, these are just as culturally influenced as the rest of the additional information. Such teachings most often being closely tied to the religion that the players practice -- with or without the martial arts training. This does, however, bring us back to the idea of cults, primarily here in the US. It is not uncommon for people in cults to be indocrtinated in a very narrow interpretation and focus of these ideas -- often to the point of misinterpretation. They are furthermore expected to follow these ideals in order to be part of the group. The problem with this is that often these "behavioral codes" do not have the cultural checks and balances that the society that created the system has. In short, parts are missing, usually what is thought of a "safety" parts. These other parts have been installed to keep certain ideas from being abused like they are in cults (e.g. your uncle is not teaching you to be a warrior, but rather the self-control, dedication and the code/conduct appropriate for a mature member of the family. If all he is teaching you is how to be a fighting machine, something is wrong). The cult members, however, often supplant their own cultural mores/standards -- and then proceed to try to ape another culture. From a place where most of them have never been, or if they have, aren't there regularly enough so that practicing is a good idea. What's wrong with this picture? I live in this culture, but am expected to follow another cultures mores when I'm in the group? (and this group is overwhelmingly made up of people from my culture?). Still being here in this culture, I am expected to follow an ancient warrior code from a place where most of the people there today don't practice it themselves? I am supposed to embrace the spirituality and mysticism of this ancient warrior code? When in fact, often such beliefs are frowned upon by both Muslims and Christians from those same cultures? (Around this time the theme from the Twilight Zone should be playing). I'm supposed to import these spirit animals from far off jungles to mold myself into a warrior when I live in an safety of airconditioned, steel and concrete environment? And the "Master" will teach me how to do all this...if I just give him all my money. C'mon... My point is that yes, spirituality does often walk hand in hand with both culture and indigenious martial arts training, however, it is abused in martial arts cults because what is being taught isn't the real thing, but rather a picked and chosen selection by the cult leader. This selection is a very warped and incomplete package. It is however, a selection that not only appeals to the dissatisfied, but works to feed the Master's wallet. Marc --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Oracion/Anting anting To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:42:25 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > This is not true that great many manongs would not believe in oracion or > anting anting because of their religious belief. I know a lot of them in the > Philippines would use this before they would fight. It is just secretly > hidden. Because they pick people they like to give these things. It is > considered sacred. If offered to you, you can either accept or decline. It > is just your choice. I was offered such oraciones but I declined. It just > not much exposed here in the United States. Point is that it is more of a cultural thing than a martial arts thing. However few Manongs put much trust in these things in this day and time. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Fred O" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:24:21 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Wrist Strength Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just built a rack to hang all of my gear from (gi's, gloves, hand wraps and so on) so they could dry properly. I also built a box to store all of my weapons in. I made these out of PVC pipe. While I was building everything a thought came to mind (my wife doesn't know it but I do think sometimes), I come to the conclusion that my wrists and grips are not strong enough as well as felling that I should be able to hit harder. So, in my futile attempt to increase my strength I built (out of PVC pipe again) weighted sticks. I made three different sticks, all are 33" long and full of steal shot. A half inch pipe weight 2lb's, a three quarter inch pipe weighing 3 pounds and a 1 inch pipe weighing 4 lb's. I have started to work with them slowly, controlled movements. I have noticed some improvements from the short time I have used them. What does everyone think of using weighted sticks to increase grip and strength? Is this good, bad, totally stupid or what? I also got a rope 5 inches wide and hung it from my garage ceiling to whack away on, and good drills to do with that? On a side note, Dale. I didn't forget about you. The video is in my wife's car ready to mail off. As soon as the thieves that stole her car return it with the video I will mail it off to you. Fred C. O'Keefe The cowards never started - and the weak died along the way   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Doug Marcaida" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:00:45 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] The BArbarians on the History channel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Heads up this coming Monday, Jan 19 the History Channel will be showing the History of the Barbarians (Goths, Vikings etc) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:21:18 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Friday's provocation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ste Ormerad, According to Moe Sislac, the lovable bartender on 'The Simpsons', there are only 3 reasons to have a firearm; 1 Home protection 2 Hunting dangerous and delicious animals 3 And keeping the King of England out of your face. I would also say that removing korns or bunions from your feet, BUT only if you haven't had too much to drink. I find that double vision throws your aim WAY off. Tim Moskal --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest