Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:57:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #27 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: cults (Todd Ellner) 2. RE: If This Smells Like (Patrick Davies) 3. Felipe's note on the orasyon and anting anting (Alex Ercia) 4. Reply to Marc (Steven Lefebvre) 5. Re: re: definitely male steps (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Friday Provocation, v. 2 (Buz Grover) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:04:54 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: cults Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >You're referring to WUMAF - World Union of Martial >Arts Federations, an umbrella organization for martial >arts groups that either practice their in-house brand >of martial arts, or else joined in because they were >attracted to the ideology of the group. It's also r>elated to the group you mentioned below, MAFWP, or >Martial Arts For World Peace. >As additional FYI, the Unification Church members >practice two types of martial arts, Won Hwa Do and >Tong Il Moo Do. The exact translations escape me now, >but if I recall, Won Hwa Do is supposed to mean The >Way of Harmony or Peace. Heh. One of my RAs in college was at a radical leftist rally some (now many) years back. The Moonies were there in force (Sun Myung Moon is a long time member of the World Anti Communist League) saying "No violence! No violence!" waving their hands in the air for the TV cameras. Meanwhile their feet were WHD/ TIMD kicking the crap out of the attendees. The Spartacist Youth League, bless their tiny Trotskyite hearts, yelled "Violence!" and waded into the Moonies. Good for the commies, I say. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:36:08 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: If This Smells Like Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 3 From: "Steve Carlo" I was told that Maryland has no "Self Defense Law." Rather like England where you can be prosecuted for sucessfully defending yourself. Hi Steve! In English and Welsh Law, as well as Scottish Law (Great Britain) its is not a crime to successfully defend yourself, but you are only allowed to do so using reasonable force. So while you are correct that you can be prosecuted it is likely that will only happen is you overstep the line considered to be adequate force. So if someone tries to hit me and I feel the need to defend myself because I was in the state of fear by striking the person in a manner that was enough to stop the incident from continuing then I am unlikely to be prosecuted. If however I continue to smash, kick, knee, choke etc the instigator then I have gone beyond reasonable force and will be - if caught - prosecuted. Its as if the act initiated has a defining line and if that line is attained but you continue then the situation becomes a new situation in the eyes of the law. While we tend to focus on the simple example of an assault in the street and the altercation taking place then and there, the law also is addressing the situation where someone gets assaulted and then later goes back to 'defend' himself. Id go and find out more but the law makers live in big houses on the hill and ill get done for loitering! ; ) In English & Welsh law you only need one witness but in Scottish law you need two for a complaint to be valid. In Scotland, you also have a 'not proven' verdict which sought of implies that you did it but it couldn't be proven. Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:52:25 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Felipe's note on the orasyon and anting anting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You hit the spot!pare! Yup kinakargahan is the term used. There is a picture of the orasyon tatooed on Mark Wiley's book of Tatang Ilustrisimo and ONe on Dan Inosanto's Filipino Martial art book of Regino Ilustrisimo. Both believed in it. Alex _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:00:49 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Reply to Marc Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Marc, This is a great discussion! The reason this fascinates me so, is from college up to today, I have spent a large amount of time researching and studying various world religions, and as a part of this, the term “Cult” was often used, especially to describe a small sect that had broken away from the main denomination, and now was outcast from the so called mainstream. The relationship of “cult like” behavior can be stretched out to encompass many pieces within our society, from commercial/professional martial arts schools, to brand loyalty of mainstream products or services. I agree with you on what is written in college business texts, there would never be a chapter on “Manipulation or Psychological Tactics”, but how about “Organizing, Models, and Behavior” taken from Production and Operations Management 2nd ed. Everett E. Adam, Jr, Ronald J. Ebert. Similar principles utilized for good purposes? As for commercial vs professional martial arts school: I see no difference between the two names. This debate on not making money for teaching the martial arts, is long and old. Most schools never get beyond the “small” size, and therefore do rely on volunteer teachers, or part time pay to supplement a regular career. But, the wave is changing. Look at Steve Lavalle, Allie Alberigo, Steven Oliver, the Kovar Brothers, Ernie Reyes Sr, and Jr, they all run large business models in a professional manner. Their full time employees receive benefits, part time workers receive pay commiserate to their work, and the top management receive high income just like any other typical business. So in regards to the reference to other businesses, many psychological techniques are used in management of others, or even their customers. There is a category of cults classified as "commercial or corporate", and so any business has to be careful of cult like behavior. By the way in your footnote (7) I have had to have threaten several martial arts school instructors with legal action for very similar slanderous remarks and unethical business behaviors. O.K., now I understand why you are using “Street effectiveness” as an example, or even the references to ritualism, or particular aspects of various arts. But why bring this topic up in a Filipino Martial Arts digest? Train Hard it is the Way! Steve L. _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: definitely male steps To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:08:32 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > yes, utilizing the replacement step staying in the male > triangle. of course circling as while holding ground, > continually monitoring for the opening to the finish. > irregardless of male or female triangle footwork, each > individual has their own way to monitor flow and energy > of a fight. > personally, through training lock and block, working free > flow drills, and working with picking drills has consistently > worked and helped to maintain my footwork. > i always seek improvement and dont claim to have answers for > anyone else, just found what has worked for me. I've found that this works, too. But not when under fast and extreme forward pressure from your attacker. Sounds like you are Serrada. Probably my favorite art, and a core part of Sudlud as well as Inayan Eskrima. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:02:54 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Friday Provocation, v. 2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've been on the road; please excuse the late response: Ste writes: > First I'd like to point out that I only mentioned a .454 as a poor > attempt at ironic comedy. I also stand corrected on the gun crimes in > the UK stats, I suspected as much but foolishly went for the wrong > stats. I also intended that part of my comment to be against gun > control legislation as practiced in this country. Yeah, I understood that; sorry for being so long winded about that aspect of your post. Often time when I'm rattling on about "gun control" et al my reaction to the latest Washington Post editorial or some other half-baked screed infiltrates my prose. Bottom line is I was thumping my chest about .454s 'cause the issue had also arisen on other fronts. Think some ironic comments I made about the Brady Bill were similarly misunderstood: I wasn't dissing the small 10 round autos the Bill inspired, just using the mention of Brady as an excuse to vent my spleen. > As for the criminals with guns argument, I still feel that it is > flawed. Yes, criminals may fear being confronted with a firearm > wielding citizen, but judging by the criminals I've encountered, that > would not necessarily deter them, merely encourage them to wield a > firearm themself just in case they met with a firearm wielding > citizen. That was basically the crux of my comment as I intended, not > as I typed. We won't settle this point here. Bad guys will certainly continue to be bad guys regardless of how the good guys are armed. Perhaps the knowledge that they may confront an armed, law abiding citizen will inspire criminals to be more trigger happy. That hasn't been the experience in the US of yet, though perhaps some circumstance could lead to a "shoot first" ethic. I'd like to suggest, however, that in a reasonably civil society, concealed carry by law abiding citizens greatly complicates criminal enterprise. If 3% of citizens are armed, every 33rd person encountered is packing. If 5% are armed, every 20th. The question then becomes which 33rd or 20th? The bad guy may only be able to guess wrong once. I spent a lot of years managing kitchens and was really good at it. One of the things I was best at involved saving pieces of pennies. Throughout the day cooks make myriad decisions that involve costs: food costs, labor costs, equipment costs, and so on. I always trained my crews to strive to reduce costs a penny and a decision at a time. A cook makes thousands of decisions throughout a shift; if a piece of a penny can be saved with each choice it really adds up. I think the benefits of an armed citizenry add up in a similar manner. Concealed carry hasn't ended crime in the US, or reduced crime by 50%, but it has had a significant impact in the 5 to 20% range, depending on numerous variables and measures. I don't think this reduction has occurred 'cause the bad guys are thinking "Oh rats, Joe Citizen may be carrying a gun so I might as well sit at home and watch the telly." Rather I think concealed carry complicates criminal calculus. They have to spend more time weighing the benefits and costs associated with a given crime; time spent weighing benefits and costs is time not spent committing crimes. I would not be surprised if the amount of time spent weighing costs correlates directly with any decrease in crime. Pieces of minutes spent weighing potential costs add up to many a crime that is not committed. As that may be, this all may seem tangentially related to FMA at best. However, there is a current push on in the UK that should give martial artists pause. The ban on private ownership of firearms has failed by any measure in Britain. Rather than address the failure head on, however, the current push involves banning toy guns, with particular emphasis placed on banning replicas that, it is claimed, are easily converted to functional weapons. The latter claim seems specious--what, are they building zip guns within replica frames?--if anyone has additional info I'd be interested. As that may be, when this push inevitably fails to reduce crime, what will the powers that be in the UK embrace to next misdirect people from their failed policies? In the US, butterfly knives, numchucks, switchblades,etc. have been banned in various jurisdictions for reason that have more to do with unreasoned fear than the number of crimes committed with these weapons. My concern is that when you institutionalize the process of blaming objects for criminal choices made by people it becomes pretty difficult to undo the ban on objects when the policy fails. It's much easier for politicians to call for more stringent bans rather than admit their folly so the cycle becomes self perpetuating. And hey, when banning objects fails you can always prohibit people from teaching others how to use objects, or better yet make them obtain a license before they hang their shingle. Perhaps this is little more than wild extrapolation on my part. However, I think all citizens everywhere should take note when failed policies begin to cascade. Standing idly by as someone else's freedom is eroded only ensures there will be fewer people to stand with you when a freedom you treasure is attacked. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest