Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:12:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #36 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. being ready for anything (Emil Johan Fisk) 2. RE: Why we do it revisited (Patrick Davies) 3. Re: Magellan (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Inosanto Cult (Patrick Davies) 5. cults & FMA (Thomas Reinhold) 6. The Edge 2004 (Center of Martial Arts) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:05:07 +0800 From: Emil Johan Fisk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] being ready for anything Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I was raised in Sweden and was shorter than most, so I had no problem running away from fights. Now that I’m 26 and living in Malaysia, most people don’t stand 6ft (183cms) tall and weigh 200 lbs, so I don’t really need to worry about getting into a fight. I’ve been studying martial arts for 14 years and I’ve never been in a fight. I’d call it pretty lucky. I’ve been close several times, but have always managed to avoid it. Other times I almost welcome it, just wanting to find out how well I’d do. I’ve done a bit of judo, some TKD and FMA, so I feel that I’m pretty well rounded. I’ve got no problems improvising which I find is a skill that many martial artists lack. I’ve seen many colleagues getting confused while practicing self-defense because I perform a technique in a manner they’re unfamiliar with. I’ve seen blackbelts confused because I punch with my left hand or counter their counter.. A serious martial artist, including those who have reached the level of blackbelt or whatever ranking system the system uses, should be better trained. We should be trained to anticipate moves and have suitable responses for each attack. I’m not talking about being reactive or proactive – I’m simply saying we shouldn’t be caught by surprise. Someone with 8 years of experience shouldn’t get kicked in the crotch by someone with 8 months experience during sparring practice – simply because he wasn’t expecting it. I’d like to get to the point a bit faster, so I'll just say that I find that silat and FMA practitioners do exceptionally well in being prepared for any attack. So… has anybody been caught off guard in class or seen a student not knowing how to defend him or herself due not having a pre-programmed response? How well do you instill spontaneity in your students? Have you ever faced a non-martial artist or someone from a different martial art, and had difficulties defending yourself because you were unfamiliar with his methods of attack? Remember, attacks are fluid and what are the chances you'll defend yourself properly? People don't punch and leave their hands out waiting for your counter. They don't do a diagonal strike with a stick and expect to hit you at once. COMMENTS PLEASE!! Sincerely, Emil Fisk ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail has been sent via JARING webmail at http://www.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:09:46 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Why we do it revisited Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 1 Michael Koblic I am not sure that I understand this. What is wrong with learning MA just to fight? .... I am not sure that an interest in learning to fight effectively necessarily makes one a cultee. On the contrary, finding out what works for one generally involves looking laterally a lot and making choices which, if I understood it correctly, is a cult anathema. On the other hand, it is possible that there *is* something wrong with me. Oops, almost forgot to take my medication... Watched a play last night on the telly where people were in for treatment for addiction. One of the first things that became apparent is that the obvious addiction or obsessive behaviour was merely a symptom of a different obsession. The staff looked beyond the obvious to identify the real issue. Now, it got me sought of thinking whether we really know why we do make choices at all. Maybe we say we don't want to find a cult to belong too while at the same time not knowing that that is exactly what we are looking for. Maybe it's the belonging? In a world where we as individuals may feel impotent in the face of globalisation etc do we still want to be the child free of responsibility and guilt? Twenty odd years ago I was an avid reader of Krishnamurti and friends of mine were visiting him at some estate in England. They offered me the opportunity to join them but I declined. I didn't want to involve in any cult and felt that the writings alone were sufficient. I wish id gone in hindsight but there were so many friends I knew getting involved in 'religious cults' at that time that I was terrified in a way. The martial arts became the focus of my obsessive behaviour but while I thought i was trying to empower myself was I simply belonging? Do we have choice or do we simply pander to our fears, longings......? The one thing I do know, is after tonight's obsessive behaviour ill go home feeling content. And those bruises will make me chuckle tomorrow....briefly ; ) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Thanks for the Joyner info. Do you know anything about the publisher info for the Bergreen book too? Thanks again, Bot > From Amazon.com for Joyner. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:07:06 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Inosanto Cult Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 5 From: "Bill Lowery" Yep, try the UK. One of my American friends couldn't believe the way Guro Inosanto is revered in the UK. People talk about him as if he is the font of all knowledge, who cannot be questioned. And more worryingly, anyone who shows a link to him ("I'm qualified under an instructor who is under an instructor who has trained with DI") tend to suggest they are the biggest fish around! One reviewer of an Edinburgh seminar described how the "congregation" fell silent as Guro I walked into the room!!!!! I am hearing an increasing number of people talk about "being honoured to be given the chance to train with Guro Inosanto". Like, yeeees, you've paid your seminar deposit before the numbers limit is reached, you're on the seminar. Nothing of any great significance that I can seein getting onto the course. But still the cult of Inosanto is being built up in the UK. I've trained on one of the Edinburgh courses, and the number of bodies (usually about 100) means that you may get to take home one or two techniques - in the main you get to boast that you've been in the room with a man who trained with the legendary Bruce Lee - I would estimate that out of the 100 who trained at the same time as I did, about 70-80 were there due to the BL connection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- Ive heard this type of bleating going on at times and sometimes I wonder if its envy or others can see something I can't. One of the complaints is the fact that people go along and they don't learn the techniques. Hey! It sort of suggests that one, they didn't understand the seminar concept and two they simply aren't good enough then! But everyone has to start somewhere and those who go afterwards to the local instructor will certainly be in a better position the following year. The first seminar with Guro Dan Inosanto I attended was in 86 and yes, I admit it, because he was a ma movie star and a friend recommended it. I've attended every Scottish one that I've been allowed to and a high percentage of his English ones. In that respect I would say that I can speak with some authority on the inosanto seminar experience in the UK, but its only my opinion. The first seminar is a culture shock. Even at that time id never even seen a pair of sticks and so the stuff went right over my head. However I went and searched out someone who would teach me and found Rick Young. Because of the training provided to me over the years by Rick Young, Marc McFann and others, I am able to keep up with the pace of the seminar and always come back having learnt something. It's a measure of the instructor when after twenty odd years of training he can make you feel like a total novice! The reverenced silence criticised at Edinburgh was more a sign of respect. You go to most clubs and people will stop their chit chat in anticipation of the class. I've seen that, having enrolled maybe an hour in advance, caught up with mates and then suddenly Guros there and its time to train. And we train. So that revered silence you criticised was more about people geared up and anticipating the training. Currently the Edinburgh seminar is at a higher level than the others in my humble opinion. Far more beginners attend from the host clubs. Glasgow doesn't really let in anyone bar their own students. Rick also has a lot of other training opportunities going on in arts like BJJ. Silat or CSW. I try and attend all the UK seminars. Yes, I cannot deny that people have their own reasons to be there. I tend to be there for my reasons and so don't waste my time (especially if it were the only visit I ever took) asking others why they are there. The atmosphere is always friendly and people accommodating. If some Bruce Lee nut wants to pay to be there that's his right and if it helps the host not lose money in promoting the arts then so be it. what's the problem? I saw Rick lose thousands of pounds over the years promoting Inosanto but now I would say the average number attending would be 200. In Bournemouth a fortnight ago about 160 - 200 people, many first timers, were on the course. They broke even. Look at all the mails that discuss who people train with and everybody acknowledges the credibility of lineage. Those who over emphasise it may have ulterior motives but ask around and you will find out whether they are good or not. I'm proud of my lineage and it certainly helps explain students that its no cowboy operation just because we don't wear belts. Guro Inosanto is one of the highest authorities and you can see the respect given to him by the instructors who populate this list. He's the last to spend his time looking for it as well and generally deflects it to other people. So is it an honour to train with him, yes it is and I have no shame in saying that. There will always be those who will try and dress like their hero, walk like their hero and talk like their hero. Does that make a cult? No one is standing over me telling me what I must do and must not do. Look at the variety of Inosanto instructors and show us the ones that are cloned. The simple fact is that the Inosanto lineage clubs in the UK are quite good. Some people looking in simply can't appreciate the time and effort put in and because they feel on the outside (even though no one created an exclusive club) make snide remarks to satisfy their impotence. They have to just get on with their own way - Live with it. Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Thomas Reinhold Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:27:16 +0100 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] cults & FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Warning: Long ;-)) Hi, I have read in some past postings that somebody didn't like the fact that Mr. MacYoung had posted a link to his page about cults (a very interesting and good overview, IMHO) on this list, because he thought that in this way, the cult phenomena would be especially connected to the FMAs (Mr. MacYoung denied that afterwards). I think that there is a lower probability that cults can work within the FMAs than in unarmed systems. This has nothing to do with the quality of the style -- I do not intend to say that (some) FMAs are better or worse than other (unarmed) systems. It is just the fact that when working with weapons like knives or swords, the student very quickly realizes how dangerous these weapons are and how much a fight can (and will) depend on luck an circumstances. This leaves less room for adoring some unbeatable, omniscient guro (from my experience, be it in unarmed or armed martial arts, I have learned that the more realistic a system is, the lesser will be any artifical (cult-) structures of respect or adoration). In short: While training with blade weapons or even sticks, the student will learn that fighting is quite a serious matter a lot faster than in unarmed training, where you can play around quite a lot without having happening something serious. I personally have had two experiences which have changed my attidtude towards the martial arts and fighting (and wich helped me to get a little rid of the natural "I want to fight, I want to be better than you"-drives): The first was when one of my Escrima-Teachers showed me the vital targets for a knife-attack and explained how easily serious or deadly damage can be inflicted to the human body. The second one was when I got accidently cut during a cutting-exercise with sharp knives. Seeing how much even a little wound (about 1 inch) would bleed (we went through six or seven tissue handkerchiefs until a bandage was applied) helped me to realize what the cuts we train would do to my opponent in reality. This kind of knowledge leaves no room for macho-attitudes or narcissism. Hope what I wrote (and my English) is understandable ;-) Regards, Thomas (Germany) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Center of Martial Arts" To: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:04:51 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] The Edge 2004 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, Here is the latest news for our first of two tournaments this year. The 2003 tournament was a blast so we hope to see you there. ............ The Edge 2004 Austin’s Center of Martial Arts presents The Edge 2004 on Saturday, April 3 from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM. The follow-up to last year’s successful Edge 2003 event features six limited rules Knife and Stick Divisions and a Knife Title Fight between the 2003 returning champion Jason Lemond and the number one contender Damon Stith. Divisions will pair many new and returning competitors to for 1st – 3rd places in each division. This event will be Co-Ed with limited rules that will accommodate everyone’s skill levels. Come witness this historic event and cheer on these men and women as they push everything they have to the limit. The Edge 2004 takes place at Givens Recreation Center in Austin, Texas and will feature two coinciding rings for non-stop action throughout the afternoon. Givens Recreation Center is conveniently located at 3811 East 12th Street near the intersection with Airport Boulevard just East of IH-35. Fighters interested in competing, volunteers including potential referees and spectators seeking more information are encouraged to contact Larry St. Clair at (512) 339-8264 or email info@edgefighting.com . Coming soon is http://www.edgefighting.com with news, pictures, rules, and more. ............ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest