Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:51:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #46 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: UK South stickfighting question (Patrick Davies) 2. Re Dan Inosanto (Patrick Davies) 3. Re: Useful military Instructions (julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk) 4. rules of engagement (LUNGHSING@aol.com) 5. Remy Presas Videso For Sale On Ebay (Sam Bell Jr) 6. Re: Inosanto (DenverAMA@aol.com) 7. Guro I (David Eke) 8. Mr. Inosanto (T I) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:11:38 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: UK South stickfighting question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 1 From: "Doug Tucker" I'm looking for stickfighting sparring partners. In or around the London area would be great but judging from the lack of response from the other forum maybe unrealistic (despite the number of FMA practitioners here). I'm prepared to travel upto an hour and a half in any direction so long as it's on a like for like basis. It doesn't matter to me what style you do or whether it's full contact, stand up only, palakaw (corto) only,padded sticks, live sticks, minimal armour - whatever. Doug, a couple of names for you Neil McLeod. You can get him through the Bob Breen Academy www.bobbreen.co.uk and Krishna Godhannia. Krishna is doing a lot to promote the competition and encouraging grass roots competition. KGodhania@aol.com +44 7702554662 Neil McLeod: Black Belt in Jeet Kune Do and Kali under JKD-Kali International. Jeet Kune Do Associate Instructor under Dan Inosanto and Associate Level 3 Instructor under JKD-Kali International. Associate Instructor in Jun Fan Gung Fu and the Filipino Martial Arts under Dan Inosanto. Instructor in Combat Submission Wrestling under Erik Paulson. Instructor in Integrated Arts under Terry Barnett. World Eskrima Champion 1996 and 1997. Twice European Champion and British Champion 16 times. Currently British Welterweight Vale Tudo Champion and a Senior Instructor at the Bob Breen Academy. http://www.bobbreen.co.uk/AcademyInstructorProfiles.asp good luck Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:52:18 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] Re Dan Inosanto Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 From: Pugil > have been rather put off by the antics and attitudes of 'others' on these seminars - people are people regardless of whether they are on the Inosanto Instructors programme or not. They will have traits that will annoy other people at any given time simply because they are human beings. In the office I am right now there is an array of different personalities working for the same company. Some dress to attract, some are loud, others quiet. Some p*ss you off and others are kind and considerate. Some have families.....Being on the instructors programme doesn't implant a new personality off the shelf in the local supermarket! What I will say is that I watched at the most recent Bournemouth seminar, several instructors in my area of the hall take the time to help beginning students who were lost. Some of these instructors live not so far from you if you are in Cambridge. In Edinburgh I watched one instructor take as a partner a virtual novice who unfortunately didn't see himself in that manner and partner him throughout the seminar. The novice did not understand that the person he was training with was directly under Guro I and refused most of the advice. Personally I'd have given up. We all pay the same money although others travel some distances. I mention these two incidents just to say that while people usually tend to focus on the negative there's a lot of positives that people may miss. Imagine the news lastnight: six planes to the US were cancelled due to terrorist threats. Or it could have said: all the planes bar six left on time to the US today! > blanket ban ..: taking pictures to (almost) breathing out loud. Hmmm, pictures are requested, from my understanding, not to be taken during instruction at some of the events now. I'm happy about that as some of the people taking pictures were definitely spoiling it at times with little regard for others on the course. You couldn't hear Guro I when he was addressing the audience. Hosts had tried hiring in microphones but they weren't the answer. I'm unaware of any other ban. Individual hosts have different requests that have probably developed over time from situations that may have developed. >Another thing is that if you are not directly under Mr Inosanto (an appointed instructor, apprentice - 'disciple' perhaps! - don't expect to get much of a look in, especially during the seminar. Again, I can understand why you say this but you can change it. I've never been averse to asking and always found that Guro give the time to answer. Erik or Joel walk around helping people when they can. Some of this can be because of the nature of the beast. Guro watches his peole to see how they are getting on. Also when he's teaching every weekend I imagine he must live in jet lag city and sees so many faces that it must be very difficult to give out time. I have people who come up to me in shopping markets and start chatting away. They tell me that they trained with me at my school but I cant remember them and I don't teach to anything like the amount of people Guro does. Taking into matter these considerations then he does a pretty good job but if you don't see the other side you have nothing to quantify the whole situation with. At the recent seminar in Bournemouth, he took a couple of young boys around 12 up and used them to explain one point. As an ex school teacher he was natural with them and it was a human touch that sometimes we forget when on seminars. This isn't MacDonalds after all. > Why did an Inosanto Academy T-shirt, that I bought on one of his seminars a few years ago, claim that Boxing originated in the USA? Cant comment, never seen it. Best wishes Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 3 From: julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:40:17 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Useful military Instructions Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It's not necessarily the bullet with your name on it that you've got to watch out for - it's the one marked "to whom it may concern". Internet communications are not secure and therefore the Barclays Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the Barclays Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Barclays Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:13:39 -0500 From: LUNGHSING@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] rules of engagement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I just spent the last half hour looking for a list of "Police Rules of Engagement" that was emailed to me by one of my old zone partners. No luck so far, but I thought I'd share my favorite from memory: "Be courteous. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet". Steve --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Sam Bell Jr" To: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:29:32 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Remy Presas Videso For Sale On Ebay Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just listed my set of 3 videos produced by Black Belt Magazine of Prof Remy Presas teaching Modern Arnis. It is eBay # 3658755128. All 3 tapes are in excellent condition and have only been viewed a few times. Thanks, Sam --__--__-- Message: 6 From: DenverAMA@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:24:47 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inosanto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CC: kalisla@yahoo.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi~ You didn't leave your name. But to answer you briefly, I was pretty clear that in martial arts circles it is appropriate to use general etiquette, which Guro Inosanto as you mentioned, most definitely deserves. If you are going to any program, whether they are a ph.d, dr. captain, general, president etc.. it is appropriate to regard general etiquette and give the recognition deserved. Particularly if they are imparting from their expertise. No need to defend personal relationships, I covered that too. Regarding me personally, I didn't give myself the title Guro~ or teacher, my instructors intrust me with that title. One I don't take lightly, (I also mentioned). As an instructor/Guro, it is my responsibility to teach and represent the title you mentioned is one that carries weight-as well as enforce the etiquette my instructors deserve. As for zealousness in the martial arts: passionate is a better platform-after all it is "martial arts." Lets have some passion if we are going to evolve, preserve and pass on the arts. I am enthusiastic, passionate regarding my influence--- zelous, OK, that will work. ;-) One of may favorite quotes is: Art is in the artist regardless of the medium. Martial is zelous/art is reflective. I will be more than happy to reply further if necessary privately, regarding this. I think it is a well... and clear. Best~ Heather MonDee > Heather, > > You wrote "he should refer to him in no other terms > than Guro" > > For those of us who are not direct students of Dan > Inosanto we have no desire, no need, and no > responsibility to call him Guro. I don't know the man > so I don't refer to him as "Dan" except in casual > conversation where repeating "Mr. Inosanto" over and > over again becomes repetitive. > > Guro is a powerful title that many are uncomfortable > with using. I'll agree that if any man is worthy it is > Dan Inosanto, but that being what it is don't expect > others to use the title for him. > > I notice on your website that you use the title Guro > for yourself as well, do you expect everyone to call > Guro at all times too? > > I would think that talk of titles and how to address > someone is the least of the concerns for someone > involved in teaching others personal protection. > Titles, belts, and kata pretty much all fit in the > same catagory fr me at least. > > Also though not directed towards you I must say that > it is the response of many of the people who follow > Dan Inosanto that draws criticism, not the actions of > the man himself. I would not call it "cultlike" or > "cultish" because this behavior is not cultivated by > Inosanto but rather his overzealous students. ANd I > have seen that in all Martial Arts. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:52:37 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] Guro I Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fred said ... He has learned from the best in every field. He has worked hard his whole life dedicating himself to the study of the martial arts. Most of us have full time jobs to work around and can only absorb so much through our week because of everything else that is going on in our lifes, the study and betterment of the martial arts is Guro Inosnto's life. That is how he found his Jeet Kune Do. You can study under him for 50 years and untill you realize that you are in search for self awareness and self discovery you would not have learned a thing. "... he has learned from the best in every field..." In the FMA all his early training was solely based on a number of Phil-Am instructors. These guys (no matter how good) only represent a partial knowledge base. To my knowledge Guro I never travelled to the PI to train with the extremely large number of indigenous FMA masters. Yes, in the 90's and onwards some of these guys came to him (E.g Cacoy and Diony Canete, ES) but without a doubt not traveling to the PI limited his exposure to the wide gamut of other FMA styles not widely known outside the PI. One example of this is before his exposure to the Canete's (pre 87) he had no E&D within his curriculum. He even made mention of this himself (if I remember correctly)when interviewed in the BBC documentary "Way of the Warrior". "...Most of us have full time jobs to work around and can only absorb so much through our week because of everything else that is going on in our Lifes..." Agreed, but he is not the only person in the World to dedicate himself to the MA's. I'm sure Guro I would be the first to admit he has his peers. I'm aware that postings with anything about Guro I get a heated reception. Quite a few on the list seem very quick to jump into heated defences... sometimes missing the point of the thread. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:22:12 -0800 (PST) From: T I To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Inosanto Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:17:33 +0000 > From: Pugil Prior to meeting Guro Inosanto I didn't know what to expect and asked as to whether or not Mr Inosanto was "the real thing" of those who had met him. They allowed me to see for myself. I had no idea that he was as knowledgeable as he was. A professor of FMA. In the end I was very happy to have met him and would attend another seminar. But I would rather train directly under him if possible...given the opportunity. ... > Firstly, I would like to say that I have the > greatest respect for Guro / Guru / Mr / Dan / > Inosanto. Cool...I think many like Mr. Inosanto. ... > Now I don't know who 'makes the rules', regarding > how such seminars are meant to be conducted > and run, but I notice that, in recent years > especially, there seems to have been a blanket ban > imposed on a number of issues ranging from: > taking pictures to (almost) breathing out loud. > Another thing is that if you are not directly under > Mr Inosanto (an appointed instructor, apprentice > - 'disciple' perhaps! - don't expect to get much of > a look in, especially during the seminar. There are many different types of instructors and probably as many different personalities as there are people. I have been fortunate enough to have trained under several very talented martial artists many of whom would not stifle your desire to do photography during training and others who would not allow it for whatever reason. Of those who allowed it, they said that the exposure they may garner will offset any implied/unforeseen losses incurred through the noncommercial exchange of the materials to other instructors and students not in attendance and not having paid for it. They also stated that the videos will not convey the training as fully as attendance. Sort of like a set of promotional materials of the seminars available. Given that the effort of amassing the body of knowledge that any of the individuals hold did not come without a cost I can understand both views. Good instructors want you to know the materials and be able to effectively employ them. As for the allowing of videotaping, perhaps it has as much to do with the parallel of allowing video taping by a student body in attendance at a major university for four years of attendance and thereafter placing the entire set of homework, exams, and classroom videos online for free for all to use. I am sure that you can see the drawback to the "school." I agree with both views, after all as a student I would love to see who will be teaching me and what their mannerisms are and style is. It is painful to find a great instructor and a great school. While in attendance I tracked down Mr. Inosanto, and his assistants several times for clarification on many moves and also watched as they instructed others who had their attention. At no time was I put off by any of them and they conducted themselves with the utmost dignity when asked to demonstrate a technique. To the contrary. > I won't say more, as I have no reason, or wish, to > offend anyone. I would like to ask just one > question, however. Something which bothered me > at the time, and has continued to do so (at odd > times) ever since: Why did an Inosanto Academy > T-shirt, that I bought on one of his seminars a > few years ago, claim that Boxing originated in > the USA? This goes against what I was told by Mr. Inosanto himself in a seminar that I attended. If I get it half right in saying it, he said that in as much as European boxing existed prior to WWII, with palms facing upward or inward and after WWII wherein popular boxing styles migrated overnight to a palm down style for strikes, blocking, gunting and trapping and the stances that followed. Given that the knife stance and striking with palms down...made the transition to fighting natural, possible and likely. Therefore, ergo, "whatever" one may infer given the evidence that the war had an effect on modern fighting, a war fought in Asia, the Phillipines included. Note that while the war was also fought in Europe the old style of boxing palms upward or facing inward remained there during and after the war....something to think about as to whether or not he is right. I think that the totality of what any teacher can offer is what they have learned in their research of some subject. Given the depth or lack thereof of knowledge in any area I would suggest that what he offered at the time is what he knew through his research. Otherwise he would be telling everyone something made, which would be inconsistent with knowledge held by many other experts causing him to be easily dismissed and unpopular. I would suggest that any great instructor, Mr. Inosanto included would tell you as his student to take from him what you can and move the body of research forward, learning and developing his body of work, in turn making it your own. If at some point in time you gave any instructor evidence contrary to that, which they had instructed they would surely do research on that area, allowing for your assistance to that body of additional knowledge and in the end incorporate that view with what he has discovered in their (fifty some odd years of) knowledge. I do not think any instructor worth their salt would discourage you or they would visibly reveal to all that they had not learned anything in their quest for position as an instructor or holder of knowledge having instead exuded a closed mind for their period of training. This of course would preclude them from being recognized in the community of expertise they represent. Closed minds do not absorb to much...and would be similar to thinking to youself in a contrary stream to what has been spoken and turning your your powers of concentration into a filter or block. A sponge does not do that...they listen intently. Just to clarify so everyone knows my background I have studied under Inayan, Bahala Na and Mata Sa Bagyo. I would be willing to train under most great instructors given the ability, time, traveling distance to the instructor four days a week and income. Now if I could just hit the Lotto...I would have it made. Tommy Bahala Na __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest