Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:57:04 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #49 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. sparring partners (Doug Tucker) 2. RE: Placido Yambao's book from Charles Tuttle (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 3. Re: Cambridge JKD/Kali (Patrick Davies) 4. RE: Boxings Origins (Patrick Davies) 5. Century Foam Vs. Action Flex (al sardinas) 6. RE: Re: Action Flex (Mike Casto) 7. cool silat site (Todd Ellner) 8. Re: Re: Action Flex (Don Pentz) 9. Boxing (Pugil) 10. Re: Re: Action Flex (Steve Ames) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Doug Tucker" To: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:52:09 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] sparring partners Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Pat, Thanks for your reply. I trained with Krishna for 6 years up until about 14 months ago, and represented him in London. I have sent him numerous emails regarding his competitions and my students participation in them over a 3 month period but haven't received any response from him. It would seem his encouragement does not extend to ex-students. As for Neil, I'll email him. Thanks once again, Regards, Doug --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Placido Yambao's book from Charles Tuttle Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:25:15 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There also seems to be a later edition (1999 paperback), check Barnes & Noble (although they don't have it either) http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?srefer=&isbn=0804 831572 - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Eric Hargett [mailto:vagabond01@hotmail.com] > Sent: 01 December, 2003 05:04 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Placido Yambao's book from Charles Tuttle > > > Howdy, > > After checking around, I've found the following: > > 1. Amazon.com--Mark V. Wiley's book on Arnis has the > following information > on your book; Placido Yambao's Mga Karunungan sa Larong > Arnis, published in > 1957. There is some historical background in Wiley's book on > Yambao and the > book, but that is it. > > 2. Library of Congress--No results using ISBN, Author, or > title. I guess it > might not have been published or widely sold in the U.S. > > 3 Ebay--Same results as Library of Congress > > 4. My very good local library came up empty. > > You'll either have to make contact with a rare book dealer, > go to the P. I. > and try and track it down, or learn Tagalog and try a search > of filipino > databases. That would be my guess. Sorry I couldn't help more. > > Eric > > Living in a Land of Virtual Reality. --Rusted Root > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic > country stars are > always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! > http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1700 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:42:58 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cambridge JKD/Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 From: Pugil >Yes Pat, but it's a bit of a shame that Guro Inosanto couldn't have gone round and helped a few people as well, I did see him and have seen him at other seminars going around and helping. But I do accept you have a point but that I also accept that what we maybe consider as participation on a seminar may not be what is actually intended. I do think numbers play an influencing factor. When Ajarn Chai was in Northampton the other year, two US TBA instructors (from Rick Fayes school) happened to be backpacking around Europe and so dropped by. They had attended quite a few Chai seminars but went on to say that they had never seen him in this light. They deduced that it was down to the small number and not the mass attendance and that this allowed for 'personalisation'. Ajarn Chai now remembers our names on his return but this wouldn't be possible on seminars with so many on. Now, one could say that seminars should therefore not be mass attended and the majority in the UK are not. But the demand for seminars is high and therefore the costs associated to it are also. Bear with me -You know this anyway as you host lots of people, I'm also aware that others are reading this. So to keep the price down the host needs lots to attend. That in itself creates the monster of 200 people of varying degrees of ability all looking to get something extra. Week in and week out of that would drain most people and so the seminar is defined by what is best for all. Rick Faye used to say, that his job was to come and dump the manure on the floor and the host instructors job is to spread it around. Are seminars meant to teach the technique exactly or to open new lines of thought, experience different ways to train? That's a huge subject and a worthy discussion but I don't think everyone will agree a single definition. The technique, the history, the philosophy are pretty good value and getting that from someone you trust emphatically is worth the cost in money, time and effort. In My Opinon! The point about the 'other instructors' was more to stress that there are those who do go out of their way to help others and encourage the strengths of what we all like to see. >What do you mean to imply by your last sentence above Pat? I think you are misinterpreting me. I assume im talking to Ollie? There's no slight intended or delivered - I sense that you may feel that there's been one delivered. > Cambridge Academy of Martial Arts (CAMA), ... good plug! I don't think we have met but im terrible for things like that and if I ever come back to this world again I would like to remember names and play guitar! I never questioned your history as I didn't know who I was speaking to and so if you felt patronised then I sincerely apologise but no disrespect was intended. If you want to take me to task on anything then simply drop me a mail or call me. >I suspect that at least one of the instructors who you said "...live not so far..." from me in Cambridge, was in fact introduced to the JKD/Kali scene after he came to train with me at Cambridge Academy of Martial Arts, in the years following the above events. As such, I am confident that he thanks me for opening his eyes to the wider world of the martial arts, beyond the Ninjutsu he was doing previously! Im wondering, looking back at the post you refer to how you picked it up? I get the feeling that you may have felt belittled by my comment which was not intended and nor can I see right now. There are many with dodgy history of climbing claws and smoke bombs that I happily rib at times! Fortunately, for all my embarrassments, I never did that! lol >Regarding the T-shirt: Just because you haven't seen it, does that mean that you don't believe it exists? Otherwise, why does you not having seen it prevent you from commenting on it? It lists the origins of fighting arts from around the world. I'd be happy to e-mail you a jpeg of it if you like? Feel free to email a copy of it. I haven't seen it - not that I can recall anyway - so I can't comment on it fully. What though is the fundamental problem? You are correct that if, from what you have said, claims made that Boxing came from the US are incorrect. Is that still being promoted? Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:08:49 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Boxings Origins Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:22:34 -0800 From: Edwin Tam: But why palm up, necessarily? Mark Denny gave a great post a couple of years ago on a bare knuckle contest he watched in las Vegas I think. He mentioned that the inverted fist (palm down) was becoming common. While getting a lift back the following weekend to London city centre after a course with Guro Inosanto, I mentioned this to Rick Young and he explained that the knuckle down position gives more protection to the knuckle/hand during bare fist fighting. Now I can't say that is the reason, but forward it in the spirit of discussion! ; ) Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:57:13 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Century Foam Vs. Action Flex Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In reply to Steve's question regarding what makes the ActionFlex stick superior to the $5 foam stick Century offers, the answer is simple - construction. Based on my experience, the foam stick breaks the first time it is applied in hitting a solid object with full force. Something reminiscent of the first time when I played with my instructor, Gat Puno Baet. Also, because the foam stick is similar in size to a regular stick, there is a danger of being poked in the eye. The material and construction of the ActionFlex makes it safer and more durable than the foam stick. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: Action Flex Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:17:18 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know that they're worth $50 - but they are vastly superior to the ones from Century. They are more rigid - so more like an actual stick. They are better constructed and can take more abuse before breaking. The outside covering is cloth so gives good purchase - even when sweaty - and feels better in general. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ames [mailto:steve@energistic.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:19 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Action Flex > ActionFlex - As mentioned above, this company's products were used in > the Samurai Sports sparring demonstrations. They offer a safer > alternative to fighting full contact with real sticks. Enough said. Go > to http://store.yahoo.com/actionflex/ for more information. Or email > admin@actionflex.com Not having used any of the "padded" type sticks... I was suprised by the $50 price tag. What makes it vastly superior to ye olde $5 foam eskrima stick from Century? -Steve _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:40:34 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] cool silat site Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My good friend Mushtaq Ali maintains the website for Pencak Silat Zul Fikar (http://www.zulfakr.com), a system developed by the Qadiri-Rifai Sufi order. He's put a lot of work into it, and it's full of useful stuff. Included in the material is a number of rules and guiding principles for practitioners of the system. While some are tongue in cheek, they are all worthwhile... The Rules 1. I hit you 2. I don’t get hit 3. When in doubt, I hit 4. Centerline is MINE! 5. While we are on the subject, so is everything else 6. It’s all in the Jurus 7. My __fill in the blank____ are ___fill in the blank____ until they aren’t 8. Elbows DOWN! 9. If it goes physical, I WILL be the one who walks away. 10. It ends NOW! 11. How badly I hurt you depends on how much of a physical threat you offered me 12. I am so dangerous I can afford to be polite, reasonable and mellow. 13. Gravity is my friend, on the other hand, it doesn’t like you very much. 14. I not only have the right to think at all times, but the responsibility to do so. 15. When it feels too easy, then I am doing it right. 16. Effective Silat means moving in four dimensions. 17. The strongest lever is the screw, 18. A screw moves circles through time and space. 19. Make sure your opponent is “Screwed” 20. It’s all Kebatinan --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: Don Pentz Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Action Flex To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I purchased some actionflex eskrima sticks over a year ago and I have found them to be far superior to any other padded sticks on the market. Actionflex makes two types of eskrima.. one is soft and one is hard hitting. We have been using the hardhitting ones for over a year and everyone has been very happy with them. I also beleive actionflex give a 1 year warranty with them. Don __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:23:25 +0000 From: Pugil To: Subject: [Eskrima] Boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Edwin wrote: "Fascinating topic. As I understand the evolution Pugil presents, the original fights were toe to toe, with straight punches to the face, thus necessitating a high tight guard to protect the face. But why palm up, necessarily? Even if the front lead were to mainly do "fencing" type thrusting jabs, couldn't this still be done palm down? And if the rear left hand were more involved in catching and parrying, why not have palm down there as well (which would only help)? Was it because they were using the forearms as shields in their blocks, and so found it more comfortable to take the blows on the outside of their forearms?" I think that what we should realise is that Boxing (and I'm specifically talking about 'Western Boxing', rather than other forms, such as Muay Thai, Filipino, Chinese, Burmese, etc.) like Fencing, and a whole load of other things, went (and continue to go) through a number of changes that probably had (and have) more to do with 'fashion' than function. (The overly long Rapier is a good example.) Originally, punches were thrown from all angles, and the hands were held high. Later on, the Fencing influence introduced an almost total reliance, in some camps, on straight thrusting blows only. 'Half-arm' (i.e. bent-arm) punches were derided at one period by some. When I said in my earlier post about Boxers 'catching' punches, I rather meant catching them on the arms, or deflecting with the arms, rather than literally trying to pick punches out of the air, like trying to catch a cricket ball, or baseball. It is of course possible that at one period of time, trainers, or Boxers themselves, believed (or found) that if they held their hands up, with the backs of the hands and forearms facing out, it offered more protection to the fingers of their own hands (and, perhaps, muscles of the forearms), whilst placing the elbows and sharp edge of the Ulna bone outwards to counter the opponent's incoming punches. Who knows, and who can be sure? What we shouldn't forget is that we are talking about bare-knuckle fighting, rather than the more modern, and descendant, gloved-hand art. As for the actual delivery of the straight punch, the hand was usually rotated to a vertical striking position, and was not turned all the way over to end up palm facing down, as nowadays. This may have been because a vertical fist was more likely to drive between, and through, the opponents raised arms. Tommy said: "Can you personally offer us a few examples of the styles of Filipino 'boxing' that existed in the periods prior to WWI or at the time the Olympiad's were being held in Greece? Perhaps not." Homer (no, not that 'Homer') is said to have mentioned 'Boxing' in the Iliad. The Greek king, Theseus, is thought to have introduced a form of 'Boxing' some time before the fifth century BC. According to one source, Boxing first appeared in the Olympic Games in 688BC, which was 92 years after Games records had started to be kept. The first Champion was someone called Onamastus, and contestants are said to have wrapped their forearms, wrists and hands with soft leather bindings, or thongs, known as himantes. They also wore hard leather coverings for their knuckles, known as sphairai. Later, the Romans introduced the caestus, which was a hard leather strip, sometimes covered in metal studs, or leather blocks cut with oval holes to put the fingers through - literally an ancient form of knuckle-duster. The Olympic Games were terminated by Emperor Theodosius the Great in 393AD. Boxing, as we know it today, ceased to be a spectator sport for about 1,300 years, until it reappeared as a Prize Fighting contest, in England in the early 17th century. Whether or not a form of 'Boxing' existed in the Philippine Islands during this time, I have no idea - and I can't be more honest than that! What I do know, however, is that the modern 'Prize Fighting' art, known around the world as 'Boxing', has it's 'direct and unbroken lineage' to England - not America as is claimed on a T-shirt which I bought at a seminar! Pugil --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Action Flex Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:35:39 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > ActionFlex - As mentioned above, this company's products were used in the > > Samurai Sports sparring demonstrations. They offer a safer alternative to > > fighting full contact with real sticks. Enough said. Go to > > http://store.yahoo.com/actionflex/ for more information. Or email > > admin@actionflex.com > > Not having used any of the "padded" type sticks... I was suprised > by the $50 price tag. What makes it vastly superior to ye olde > $5 foam eskrima stick from Century? Thanks to all that responded! Most appreciated. -Steve --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest