Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 03:01:51 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #64 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Silat Sabungin? (Felipe Jocano) 2. Human Cockfights (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 3. RE: Blayshalla (Stovall, Craig) 4. Re: Human Cockfights (Ray Terry) 5. Silat seminar in Philadelphia (Kevin Blake, Esquire) 6. Re: Human Cockfights (Felipe Jocano) 7. Re: Human Cockfights (Pierre Honeyman) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:41:06 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Silat Sabungin? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, You are correct about sabong/sabong being used in the Central Visayas as well. In Tagalog, the term means the same thing. However, I should have qualified that sabung is a noun. To transform it into a verb, you add either a prefix (sinasabong) or an infix (sinabong). Normally, however, you add only suffixes to verbs (e.g., sipa - sipain, which means to kick), as well as prefixes and infixes (sisipa, sinipa). That's why to me, the word sabungin in the title looks odd. Interestingly, the word silat also occurs in Tagalog but is not often used. The only time I heard it used, the speaker was telling his partner, "Silatin mo na!" which meant kick the thing off (he was telling his partner to remove the wooden base from a refrigerator). It means a short sharp movement, like a stomp. But like you I am also interested in the logic behind the style's name. Is there anyone out there who can explain it? Bot > Sabong/Sabung is a word used in the Central Visayas > for cockfighting or the > arena, however, silat is not a commonly used word > there. If the word > combination is used anywhere it's probably down > south in Mindanao. For all > practical purposes I don't know how a style could be > based around the > physical dynamics of cockfighting, I'd be interested > if someone could post > the rationale or philosophy behind the naming. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 2 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:41:31 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Human Cockfights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/16/04 7:49:07 AM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Sabong/Sabung is a word used in the Central Visayas for cockfighting or the > arena, however, silat is not a commonly used word there.  If the word > combination is used anywhere it's probably down south in Mindanao.  For all > practical purposes I don't know how a style could be based around the > physical dynamics of cockfighting, I'd be interested if someone could post > the rationale or philosophy behind the naming. > Guru Inosanto teaches 'panantukan' as a blade referenced boxing system. It relates to dagger, but also to palm stick, and I am sure pushdagger type tools and kerambit. The Romans fought with Cestus as did the Thai's I believe (stories of broken glass glued on, or maybe just bad Van Damme movies). Richard Bustillo told me that during the '89? WEKAF tourney, he met guys who sparred in the Phillipines exposing only an inch of blade and going to the first bad cut. The Malaysians and Indonesians also attached spikes and blades to their toes/ankles, etc. I don't think this stuff is too far fetched. As far as syntax. NO ONE on this list ever agrees on that stuff. It ends up in a pissing match over panantukan/suntukan, kinomutai, datu/tuhon, etc. Let it go, and lets talk training. Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:10:19 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Blayshalla Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Brown, I take it from your post that you're a student or associate of Blaise Loong? Just curious...what's the source of Mr. Loong's knowledge (persons, institutions, literature, etc.) in terms of the European material that he's teaching (specifically the Viking stuff mentioned on the website)? Not that I doubt the authenticity of the material...just curious as to how this kind of material was handed down into modern times. Thanks! CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Human Cockfights To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:38:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Richard > Bustillo told me that during the '89? WEKAF tourney, he met guys who sparred > in the > Phillipines exposing only an inch of blade and going to the first bad cut. Sounds like a description of prison fun-n-games from Prison's Bloody Iron, (I think was the name of that book). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Kevin Blake, Esquire" To: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:19:43 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Silat seminar in Philadelphia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guru Ken Pannell of Dayton, Ohio will be presenting a two day seminar on silat in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on April 17 & 18, 2004. The seminar is hosted by the Butohan school of Sayoc Kali and will take place at Muhammad's Martial Arts Academy (directions to the school can be found at www.muhammadsmartialarts.com.) On Saturday, April 17, Guru Ken will cover aspects of Cipecut (sarong/flexible weapons), Tjikalong, and Hantu Jalen Silat. On Sunday, April 18, Guru Ken will concentrate on Harimau and Hantu Jalen Silat. A bio of Guru Ken can be found at www.asianfightingarts.com. For details please email Kevin Blake at kevinblake@sayoc.com or telephone 610 272 2602. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:54:31 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Human Cockfights To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just curious. Even with the native speakers? Well, hokay (shrug), I'm just a native speaker here wondering about the source of the name. Now that makes me even more curious as to exactly where its supposed to be from and how it looks. Anyone seen what it looks like and how it's done? Bot As far as > syntax. NO > ONE on this list ever agrees on that stuff. It ends > up in a pissing match over > panantukan/suntukan, kinomutai, datu/tuhon, etc. Let > it go, and lets talk > training. > Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:42 -0800 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Human Cockfights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com: > The Romans fought with Cestus as did the Thai's I believe Speaking of the Cestus, Donn Draeger notes its use in India as well. There is a picture of one being used in _Asian Fighting Arts_. Pierre --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest