Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 04:56:09 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #71 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The bonehead deal (Phil Hurcum) 2. live steel con't (Marc Scott) 3. Blades, Blades, Blades (hgroveri@gmu.edu) 4. Re: why not ask Mr.Loong (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: just a couple of comments (Felipe Jocano) 6. Re: Blaise Loong (ulfhead@integrity.com) 7. Live Steel cont... (William Schultz) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The bonehead deal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ok Tyrkonn, I have no issue with the way you train. None with the way you have explained everything in the previous post. You seem intelligent. What's with the "trample the weak" stuff. Hurdle the dead fair enough. But trample the weak come on. For guy's selling hardcore blade training tapes, do you think this imparts a sense of responsibility or I dunno fairplay. It doesn't sound good at all. I mean great, you guy's are living the scandanavian norse mythos thing. Is your ideal warrior the Viking, marauders and pillagers. Is this what you are trying to portray? Admittedly every culture and major institution has it's boogeymen, but public perception is not that the Vikings were peaceful farmers. Should people be more educated, you bet. Too bad they are not. I think what most people on this digest are trying to say in a very nice way, is did you guy's make this stuff up or what? Maybe I am reaching here, but this is a great digest, thanks Terry, and people will argue and debate, but it is generally done witrh a cetrtain degree of civility. Sometimes the dirty laundry that does air is pretty informative. Again, from your last post I'll say you seem to have put alot of thought into what you are doing and how you are going to get to your martial goal. But Evil elves? Where the hell does that come from? Down there in the states with the whole let's sue each other silly thing going on, don't you think maybe you guy's are leaving yourselves wide open to some sort of liability suit? As for the spelling, maybe here on the digest guy's don't care, but when it comes to marketing it really counts. Branding, imaging and consumer perception etc. are all key concepts that you guy's need to deal with. Based on your site, the one selling the videos, I personally would not buy your product. In fact my gut reaction to your site was such that I made the first post on this topic. Based on your last post I will apologize for what I said. To be a jerk I am only going to apologize for the way I said it. However I am still stunned by the perception your site leaves. 90% of the time I explain to people what I do. The suits in the real world, or ladies I get a lecture on violence. A lecture on how I am bringing back the old ways and the worst of man's past. Now you and I and pretty well damn near everyone else on this digest know this isn't true. These same people however see a site like that and have no sense of reference about what you are saying. They really jsut don't get the whole thing. They get into trouble and the police will save them like superheroes or something. Again for what it's worth, I apologise for the way I made my point earlier. I do think however you guy's should rethink the way the material is presented to your peers and the under educated, martial interested public. I am emailing this to you personally first and then posting this to the digest. i will not apologise in secret. I am able to present this to the public. Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:02:49 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Scott To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] live steel con't Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A few points... 1) I am talking about two people doing training with live blades not a single person working a live blade in ther air. 2) Everyone seems to agree that with live blades you change things. What you are then doing is going away from realistic training due to the training medium. I think we should strive to be more realistic not less so. By using live blades and then changing the drills to accomodate them you are only cheating yourself, training at full speed with dulled blades is far better and will only help you in the long run. 3) Those of you who talk about working against live blades and not getting cut are either the greatest knife fighters in the world or once again you are not training within a realistic structure. Nothing in training is 100%. Mike Tyson misses punches every now and then and MLB batters miss easy balls. The same holds true in training. If you are training with 100% realism then you will have mistakes, sometimes you will get cut, sometimes the techniques won't work. If you use live blades under realistic circumstances you get cut, simple as that. 4) I cannot even begin to think I can tell you how to train, I am simply sharing my own observations. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:15:29 -0500 From: hgroveri@gmu.edu To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Blades, Blades, Blades Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Lotta good blade threads going: swinging 'em, blade shapes, what handles work, and so on. I've several more random comments: Favorite blades/blade shapes/handles: I like a short, scimitar style blade made by the defunct Blackjack Knife Company called a Vorpal Maringer. It's a slightly curved 23 inch weapon with a 17 inch blade, flared tip, but an overall geometry that still allows a thrust. The micarta handle works well, and something about swinging the blade in reverse grip leaves me feeling like a threshing machine. Several used ones I've seen advertised have had longitudinal cracks, and I've seen several advertised as having been magnafluxed--presumably 'cause it's prudent--so I hesitate to talk 'em up. Still, if you get to pick one up I think you'll like playing with it. A recent acquisition, one of the Cold Steel Barrongs mentioned in the Digest a couple months ago, has been getting a lot of play in the backyard. When looking at it the first thought is "who dreamed up that bizarre handle?" It's not a blade for dilly dallying around with--you have to commit--but once you cut loose and start seriously swinging that odd handle nests in your hand, leaving little doubt about what the blade could do. A fun short sword at a great price. Have to mention Tantos also. I've several of various sizes; they are my favorite general use combat blade shape. I spent so many years cooking that I got use to single edged blades; every time I pick up a double edge I ding myself. Tantos allow me my single edge predilections, though I can still manage a wicked backslash with a Tanto tip. Bought one of the first generation Cold Steel Recon Tantos many years ago. It was basically one of their standard steel Tantos, but with unburnished brass butt and guard, and an unpolished blade. 'Cause it didn't cost that much it was always the blade I grabbed for general carry and beating around. It's seen a lot of miles, still holds a great edge, and is often my first choice when heading out the door for parts unknown. Another thought about live blade training: I suppose, if you wanted to, you could train combat pistolcraft with a wooden gun. Someone could clap a couple coconut halves together when the "trigger" got pulled, someone else could smack the muzzle up to simulate recoil, you could work on sight picture, stance, etc. Of course the first time a weapon stovepipes in combat you'll be SOL, and you'll amuse all combatants greatly as you slap at your shirt with a loaded weapon in hand trying to bat at the hot piece of brass that just ejected unexpectedly down your shirt collar, but you could do all of your training with a wooden gun nonetheless. The FBI says the average distance for a firearm encounter is about 21 feet. Think it's safe to say most bladed encounters occur at ranges closer than that. If training for a firearm encounter that averages 21 feet with a wood gun sounds silly, doesn't training exclusively for a knife fight with a dowel sound sillier still? Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:50:24 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] why not ask Mr.Loong To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good idea; however, Tyrkon Lawson and Johnny Brown have done a good job answering the questions raised, including those I asked previously. Bot --- "J. Richard Metcalfe" wrote: > I have been reading many seeming childish comments > regarding the authenticity > of Blaise Loong's training background. If you are > all so concerned why not ask > him where he learned his warcraft. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:28:00 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] just a couple of comments To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tenrec > Maybe its meant to be used like "Chiclet" in > "chiclitin mo baybeh!" ? And just how many on this list do you think would be old enough to remember that? :-) > Balisong Dept: > > Mr. Jocano wrote: > > >For those of you in Metro Manila, or will be here > >within this week, check out UP Batangan's exhibit > at > >the University of the Philippines Diliman Main > Library > >gallery, 2nd floor. > > My resident Phil Expert is asking "Is it this week > only?"...will relay answer to him. > Thanks in advance! The exhibit is this week only :-( until Friday. > On the balisong subject, does anyone know how long > ago the oldest example dates back > to? Any known references to this specific weapon in > history or in old Spanish Period > documemnts? > The exhibit also displays a brief history of the balisong. The information says it's invention is attributed to Perfecto de Leon, during the early twentieth century. I'd be interested in finding out more too. BTW, for what it's worth, there are some photographs of the manufacturing process. Regards, Bot P.S. Still working out in sayonatchi? :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:15:10 -0600 (CST) From: ulfhead@integrity.com Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Blaise Loong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will ask Blaise if he will be near a computer in the next few days and if so if he could spell out his credentials for those interested. I will just mention a few here... We should have those up on www.yashai.com soon just FYI. (1) Guro Ted Lucay Lucay (earlier - Blaise used to run his classes) (2) Dan Inosanto (long time student and listed in the official JKD lineage that came out in Black Belt mag some time ago) (3) GM Edgar Sulite (personal privates) (4) GM Leo Giron here is an interesting link I just found on-line about Blaise. http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1985/dec85/greenberet/greenberet .html --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "William Schultz" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:04:10 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Live Steel cont... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is something I posted elsewhere but is relevant to the topic at hand. http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?t=5500 *********************************************** Live blade training: A great motivator for heightening your awareness as well as getting students to see the point (pun intended) of the principles being taught. Flowing and moving full speed with a live blade is not the same as flowing with trainers. The physical movement is the same, but the mental component is not. Being able to Flow with trainers is beneficial (but they also allow you to be sloppy), but you will find out real fast that a live blade changes the dynamic dramatically. I’ve seen people fly with trainers, but hand them a live blade and many look like their learning all over again. You need to be able to over come the fear of cutting yourself, and develop the heightened confidence, awareness, and skill to avoid doing so. One (of many) training method I like to use, and advocate for advanced students is to practice being able to flow at full speed with live blades (single and double of varying sizes). You start out going slow working through movements from various drills and gradually speed up to full speed. Then just start free flowing while moving around utilizing footwork and simultaneously changing the height and angles of your attacks. Your awareness becomes much more heightened and tuned with the added danger of the live blade. I’ll also practice this with different blade types and sizes which force me to be able to modify my technique to make the most of the weapons capabilities. Another variation is to add in moving targets (that I hang from the ceiling…or trees if I’m outside) that help me develop my targeting and hand eye coordination as well. ********************************************************** I also advocate two person controlled live blade training…blade to blade and open hand to blade. I know it doesn’t precisely simulate a real confrontation, but that’s not really the point. The point is to build the students blade awareness and to get them to develop the mental component of confronting real steal. To many people who always train with dummy blades develop the bad habit of just waltzing in to perform their technique/disarm believing that is really going to be how it goes down, not developing a healthy respect for a real metal edge. Hand someone a real blade after watching them work with trainers and see how much their technique and focus changes. It’s not the end all be all of training, just a component among many. The goal is always to keep your training partners/family intact and healthy while training as realistically as possible….realistically AS POSSIBLE. William New England Pitbulls Mongrel Combative Arts www.newenglandpekiti-tirsiapitbulls.com _________________________________________________________________ Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest