Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:02:39 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #90 - 2 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Burn Kim at the stake... (Bobster) 2. RE: knife grapple (barry meadows) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:14:35 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Burn Kim at the stake... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"Yes, but the flow is not the be all and end all of an art, especially the FMA's. Too many times we get caught up in the flow, which in a lot of cases is an artificial flow. (How's that for a blasphemous statement?) Kim Satterfield"< HERETIC!!! Just kidding, sit back down! Of course, you're right, but my point was on exclusionary tactics in the discussion of different approaches to FMA, and the commonality we all share. But, since you brought it up... "Flow" exists solely as an intangible, abstract concept, not a physical one. For instance, you can't really define the word "Love". You could give the categorical definition, list the characteristics of the element, such as "Adore", "Erotic", "Compassionate". But you can't really narrow it down much more, because it is a feeling, and it's characteristic definition will change from person to person. "Flow" has this same element. It is the culmination of spontaneity, relaxation, focus & dexterity, but that doesn't really give you a clear picture. "Flow" is your ability to receive any attack, respond to it, and maintain physical and mental equilibrium. "The Fluid Situation" is, quite literally, a fight. More to the point, it's what occurs IN a fight. Two fighters exchanging blows, defending and attacking, each trying to gain the upper hand and simultaneously counter the other. Both combatants must adapt to environment, ground and surroundings. This calls for a higher level of focus, relaxation & dexterity. The fluid situation is the alive situation, it is the place where anything can occur, and your training allows you to respond to the attack and deal with it instead of freezing up. As you have mentioned "artificial flow", I want to point out that there is a large gap between static strike – block – counterstrike drills (ABCdarios,) and full-on sparring. Several attributes are missing for the practitioner, making it difficult, if not impossible, to jump right into sparring & try to achieve the flow. This is particularly true if you have no concept of motion and interaction with a partner, and I don’t simply mean the static “One strike with 58 counters” type of drill with very little footwork or body English. Simple one-two & three step attack/defense drills are referred to as "Dead". This is due to the fact that the interaction between attacker and defender is static, & lacking any real play between the two. Usually, the attacker makes one or two strikes and freezes his position, allowing the defender to work around him while he remains stationary. Although this drill serves a purpose, it is used primarily for beginners. As you progress in skill, and gain better control over yourself & your weapon, you move into "alive" drills, working towards what is commonly referred to as "The fluid environment", or “Flow”. Sumbrada, for instance, takes the practitioner out of fundamental step-strike-block linear style patterns, and into more complex activity: It develops the basic attributes learned in the static drills, and applies them with interactive motion. In static-type drills, one person feeds a line and holds that position, while the receiver works his technique. In Sumbrada BOTH participants work technique simultaneously, developing the interactive attribute (exchanging varied technique with a partner while in MOTION). When a basic exchange, or “Flow” is achieved, more difficult & advanced elements are added to the basic game. Sumbrada, like Hubad, is excellent for this, because it allows you to add, subtract, or mix ‘n match any number of skills, ranges, footwork, etc. However, many people lack flow, or only have the most basic concept. Sumbrada, coupled with other flow drills such as Hubad, can be the stepping stone into flow. Any flow drill operates in a very basic structure, usually between 3-5 moves, with basic angles of attack. The principle of this is simplicity, a fundamental pattern & tempo to build off. Once you have achieved a comfortable level with the basics, you add variations to the basic idea, i.e. disarms, double weapons, knife, empty hands, traps, & limb destructions. The depth of variation really depends on your own imagination and ability. Experiment with different footwork patterns & attack angles. Remember to start simple and build to the complex, keeping the idea of flow in mind. Keep in mind flow drills are the MAP, not the TERRITORY. Here is where we really address the issue of "Artificial Flow". Flow drills commonly act as a bridge between static or "Dead" drills, & sparring. It's easy to get hypnotized into thinking you are a fighter simply because you work the punyo sumbrada really well. Pretty to look at & fun to do, many people STOP at flow drills & never progress to sparring. This is a mistake. Therefore, free-form sparring should always be the next step after you familiarize yourself with sumbrada. This is what I call the "Orderly Progression of Study": 1: SOLO DRILLS (First Steps) Striking Drills, Blocking Checking Hand, Footwork, Numerado 2: STATIC DRILLS (Clearing the Path, or Muscle Memory) These are predictable attacks with a predictable outcome. Also referred to as "Predictable interaction with a partner". ABCdarios, entry drills, Pangamot form, block & defend, corridor drills 3:FLOW DRILLS (Linking the Lines) Predetermined attacks with an unpredictable outcome. Also referred to as "Predictable & unpredictable interaction with a partner." Hubad, Sumbrada, Crossada, Palisut, Pandol, Kadena de Mano, Sinawallis, Daga Banda y Banda (Back & Forth drills) 4:SPARRING (Full Flow) Spontaneous attacks with an unpredictable outcome. Unpredictable interaction with a partner. Bear in mind that sparring is done at varying speeds, slower for training purposes, and faster, with a kind of "Lay it on the table" sort of attitude. Michael D. Massie, thank you for the kind compliment. Now I must ride to another village that needs my help. Bobbe Edmonds "Simplicity is often the most difficult of concepts" --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "barry meadows" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] knife grapple Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 05:46:14 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ive been studying Subission for 5 yrs and also love The FMA's Ive trained grappling with a training knife and Ive found that the Karambit is by far the hardest to defend.It is EXTREAMLY hard to disarm and counter.Especially if the guy knows even basic grappling and knife play.The finger hole and size and shape make so very deadly at very close Q. Peace >From: Q >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] knife grapple >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:38:24 -0800 (GMT-08:00) > >-----Original Message----- > >There was a conversation on this list a while ago on that subject. Look >for "knife" and "grappling" in the archives. Marc Denny responded to a >similar query. I believe he said that when he tried grappling with a knife >with one of the Machado brothers (I think it was), he at first got the >upperhand, but once Jean-Jacques realized what was happening, he pretty >effectively smothered the weapon. If that's not correct, maybe Marc can >jump in. > > > >I'm a pretty poor grappler but when I tried to train (all non-edged >simulated weapons red handle spyderco etc.) this I found it much harder to >not get cut when the blade got small sub 4". It was near impossible to >out grapple a guy with a kerembit. The longer 8-12" blade was something >you could screen out and just did not fit with the range. In fact once you >got past the initial thrust/slash and started your trap/counter the 12" was >pretty ineffective...but like a big bullet it only needs to hit you once. >Personally I don't think I would like the 12" hot or the 1" kerembit rip >so to me a cut is a cut. Furthermore, grappling is all about capitalizing >or forcing your opponant to make a mistake. Sticking a 1" kerembit in the >thigh while stuck under a mount works for me. > >Regards, > >Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. >Torrance, Ca. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest