From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Mar 10 08:34:30 2004 Date: 10 Mar 2004 08:34:30 -0600 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 1078929270 0000000000 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Wed Mar 10 05:50:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from rimmon.cisto.com (rimmon.cisto.com [69.10.135.37]) by behemoth2.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i2ABo6A08627 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:50:06 -0600 Received: (qmail 16909 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2004 11:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rimmon.cisto.com) (127.0.0.1) by 0 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2004 11:04:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:03:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20040310110328.16798.89927.Mailman@rimmon.cisto.com> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #95 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Once Guns Are Banned ... (Ken Grubb) 2. Rank (World Modern Arnis Alliance) 3. Re: Once Guns Are Banned ... (Phil Elmore) 4. Re: and still more flow (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. RE: Modern Arnis Dan Rankings - Probationary & Lakan (Danny Anderson) 6. Re: Rutano ESTOKADA Kali (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ken Grubb" To: "Eskrima List" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:27:16 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Once Guns Are Banned ... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://makeashorterlink.com/?J50122BA7 http://makeashorterlink.com/?V1D052BA7 New law to ban swords Peter Mickelburough, state politics reporter 09mar04 SWORDS will be outlawed from July under new laws to curb the growing use of the weapons in street brawls. Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said the ban would help police overcome a culture of young people arming themselves with swords. "For most people running around the street carrying swords there is absolutely no reason for them to be carrying those weapons," he said yesterday. >From July, anyone found possessing or selling a sword without a permit will face up to six months' jail and fines of up to $12,000. Existing sword owners must surrender their weapons to police, sell them to a licensed dealer or apply to the Chief Commissioner for specific approval. Collectors and people with legitimate cultural, religious or military reasons to own swords will be exempted from the ban, but must store them under lock and key and have a burglar alarm. The sword ban follows a string of recent attacks and a regulatory impact statement undertaken by the State Government last year. Last week, a 13-year-old boy was arrested and charged after allegedly charging police with a sword near Castlemaine, in central Victoria. A 21-year-old man had his hand severed by a samurai sword in a confrontation between 40 men in the Fitzroy Gardens a fortnight ago -- the second brawl involving swords in 24 hours. Huy Huynh, 19, was chased from the Salt nightclub and hacked to death nearby in July 2002 by a mob using samurai swords and machetes. The new laws will make it illegal to sell swords to anyone who does not have a permit. Sword sellers will have to keep a register of buyers' details and make it available for police to inspect. Mr Haermeyer said groups such as highland dancers, historic re-enactment groups, bonafide collectors and people with family heirlooms could apply for an exemption from the licensing services branch of Victoria Police. "Legitimate sword owners understand the importance of ensuring that their swords do not fall into the wrong hands," he said. "The vast majority of the community would say, 'Look, there's no place for people just being able to go out there and buy these things and carry them around the street'." Mr Haermeyer said the exact definition of a sword under the new regulations was still being considered. He said machetes would remain a controlled weapon, requiring a person to have a legitimate reason for carrying them. The Government is also looking at bans on some other weapons, such as crossbows, and greater restriction on the sale of prohibited and regulated weapons at weekend markets. Mr Haermeyer warned that police would be actively hunting for knives and swords after being given new powers and 480 metal detectors late last year, allowing them to search people they reasonably suspected were carrying weapons. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "World Modern Arnis Alliance" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:26:00 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Rank Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just noticed this. Does Modern Arnis actually use the Japanese/Korean term "Dan"? I know that Cacoy uses a Black belt rank approach in his Doce Pares, but he uses the term "Degree" instead of Dan. Just curious... Ray Terry No it doesn't. Datu Tim Hartman --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:57:34 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Once Guns Are Banned ... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/guncontrol.htm http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/goingarmed.htm Ken Grubb wrote: http://makeashorterlink.com/?J50122BA7 http://makeashorterlink.com/?V1D052BA7 New law to ban swords Peter Mickelburough, state politics reporter 09mar04 SWORDS will be outlawed from July under new laws to curb the growing use of the weapons in street brawls. Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said the ban would help police overcome a culture of young people arming themselves with swords. "For most people running around the street carrying swords there is absolutely no reason for them to be carrying those weapons," he said yesterday. >From July, anyone found possessing or selling a sword without a permit will face up to six months' jail and fines of up to $12,000. Existing sword owners must surrender their weapons to police, sell them to a licensed dealer or apply to the Chief Commissioner for specific approval. Collectors and people with legitimate cultural, religious or military reasons to own swords will be exempted from the ban, but must store them under lock and key and have a burglar alarm. The sword ban follows a string of recent attacks and a regulatory impact statement undertaken by the State Government last year. Last week, a 13-year-old boy was arrested and charged after allegedly charging police with a sword near Castlemaine, in central Victoria. A 21-year-old man had his hand severed by a samurai sword in a confrontation between 40 men in the Fitzroy Gardens a fortnight ago -- the second brawl involving swords in 24 hours. Huy Huynh, 19, was chased from the Salt nightclub and hacked to death nearby in July 2002 by a mob using samurai swords and machetes. The new laws will make it illegal to sell swords to anyone who does not have a permit. Sword sellers will have to keep a register of buyers' details and make it available for police to inspect. Mr Haermeyer said groups such as highland dancers, historic re-enactment groups, bonafide collectors and people with family heirlooms could apply for an exemption from the licensing services branch of Victoria Police. "Legitimate sword owners understand the importance of ensuring that their swords do not fall into the wrong hands," he said. "The vast majority of the community would say, 'Look, there's no place for people just being able to go out there and buy these things and carry them around the street'." Mr Haermeyer said the exact definition of a sword under the new regulations was still being considered. He said machetes would remain a controlled weapon, requiring a person to have a legitimate reason for carrying them. The Government is also looking at bans on some other weapons, such as crossbows, and greater restriction on the sale of prohibited and regulated weapons at weekend markets. Mr Haermeyer warned that police would be actively hunting for knives and swords after being given new powers and 480 metal detectors late last year, allowing them to search people they reasonably suspected were carrying weapons. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:31:55 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: and still more flow Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Rocky, In a message dated 3/8/04 11:04:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > << McGlukie > ;-)>>> LOL!!!!...Yeah, poor Al had it rough with me, he put up with a lot taking me on as a student...;-). I got a good chuckle from your post; it immediately took me back to the best years of my martial arts life, back to the backyard days on Sandpoint Road with Al and Rob McDonald, my other FMA teacher. Those days were an incredible learning experience for me. Al and Rob were the best teachers I could have had, (I still train with Rob to this day), and I wouldn't have traded those days for anything...thanks, Rocky, for taking me back there, much appreciated. > << ability to > move smoothly WRONG!! I remember about 15 years ago I was at a Modern Arnis > camp, and everyone kept talking about "the Flow" "the Flow" everyone got in > a > circle and one at a time step out and did this little four count flow drill > Professor use to teach, which privately he use to joke about! So any ways > this > lady from the west coast was telling everyone oh good good you got the flow, > my turn comes up I step out into the circle and mimic a right side number 2 > Balintawak block followed by a straight number one counter, and walked back. > her reply was ok Rocky ah1 you did good just keep working on it, basically > my > example went over her head, point is having good flow means you react out of > trained instinct, you don't think, you just do, the movement its self might > be > very flowing and graceful it could also be short and choppy ( My example) > when > your techniques come second nature and without thought, hard or soft, > flowing > or quick, short or even jerky, then you have the flow, you don't have or > understand the flow because you can do a drill!!>>> Abso freakin' lutley, Rocky...once we had a basic understanding of the flow, Rob would toss in broken rhythm, shorten up his hits, anything to keep us alert and responding. The flow is a training tool to get you to a certain point. An attacker couldn't give two sh##'s about flow, he just gonna hit you. The flow will give you an edge, granted, but a fight should be over quickly, and the old Manongs said, "three clicks and one guy goes down." Kim --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:39:13 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis Dan Rankings - Probationary & Lakan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The concept of the probationary and Lakan ranks is one mostly done on the east coast.  we on the west coast never had the scene of Lakan, Lakan isa, Lakan dalawa, etc.  This also extends to the idea that Lakan was first degree, Lakan isa was "2nd degree," and so forth.  At best, Prof. Presas just said a person was a probationary Black and then later upgraded to 1st Degree.  I looked at the probationary black as a "shodan-ho."  That is a term for probationary or temporary black belt.  I do know (on the west coast) Prof. Presas was tired of people making their black belt and then splitting the scene so to check and test loyalty, he instituted the probationary period before promoting to full black. Also, to my knowledge Prof. Presas never promoted anyone in the US to anything higher than 6th Degree Black.  I was somewhere around the 4th or 5th promoted (Jim Power, Robert DeMott [I believe that's his name], Lee Lowery preceded me) and Tim Harman was the last in 2000.  All other Modern Arnis ranks higher than 6th Degree in the US were awarded after his passing.  He did award titles as well as numerical ranks, e.g. Datu, Senior Master, Master of Tapi-Tapi. As to Ernesto Presas' people using the term "Modern Arnis," GM Ernesto Presas has said that Modern Arnis is a part of Kombatan. Yours, Dan Anderson "Professor Remy Presas didn't, at least.  (In fact, he didn't like using japanese terms for anything he did...)  While he did use belt ranks, and black was/is top color, the term used was lakan (or dayang for females), and the ranks were: Lakan                (black belt - sometimes a probationary one beforehand,                                               sometimes not) Lakan isa            (1st degree black belt) Lakan dalawa         (2nd degree black belt) Lakan tatlo          (3rd degree black belt) ... etc on up to 10th degree The term Dan is probably sometimes used by modern-arnisadors to 'aid' in communication with different stylists who might not know what a lakan/dayang is.  Furthermore, you may remember the big stink years ago about X-th level black belt, which came about because lakan was a full black belt level in its own right; so 2nd degree is actually the 3rd level of black belt, etc.  Enough of that though - just wondering who the '8th dan' guy is; I didn't think Modern Arnis had anyone higher than Lakan Anim (6th degree), or at most Lakan Pito (7th degree)... Ernesto, on the other hand, might have a different ranking terminology, and his people sometimes use the term Modern Arnis as well." - Tye [ PS - Hi Ray!  Yep, I'm still on here...  ;-) -- Tye W. Botting, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, NCPTT/NSU Department of Chemistry and Physics Northwestern State University, Natchitoches, LA lab: 318-356-7444 off: 318-357-5235 fax: 318-356-9119 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Rutano ESTOKADA Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:06:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > different level. The system is not based on memorizing techniques or > "moves"/forms but rather on concepts. Can you give us a physical example of how this differs from other FMAs you've studied? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest