Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:28:04 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #96 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: "Dan" term (ABANICO) 2. Re: terminology (Felipe Jocano) 3. RE: Leo Fong website (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 4. "8th Dan guy" (ABANICO) 5. funny thing with the digest. (ABANICO) 6. Footwork and terrain drills (julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk) 7. RE: Siling Labuyo Arnis (Young Forest) 8. good times (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:13:50 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: "Dan" term Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Senior Master Samuel Dulay (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Philippines) >>Datu Dieter Knüttel (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Germany) >>Special Guest Star: Senior Master Roland Dantes (8th Dan Modern Arnis, >>Philippines/Australia) >> >> > >Just noticed this. Does Modern Arnis actually use the Japanese/Korean term >"Dan"? I know that Cacoy uses a Black belt rank approach in his Doce Pares, >but he uses the term "Degree" instead of Dan. > >Just curious... > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com > > Hi Ray, it is used together with the terms "degree" and "Lakan" for males and "dayang" for females. "Dan" is such a houshold name, that everybody can rely to. This is why it is used as well as the other terms. Thats all. Regards Dieter --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] terminology To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, We've got an interesting discussion on terminology going on here. Not which term is correct, mind you, but on whys and wherefores of the ways people use terms from other people's languages. One issue that came up was "hijacking and ownership." Could it really be said that the various FMAs have been hijacked over the years? I'm not so sure about that. That would imply that the "hijackers" took the arts from our country by force...unless I'm being too simplistic about the definition of hijacking. Given the written and oral history of the FMAs over the last century, they have been shared with the world at large voluntarily, and more so over the last decade. That puts into perspective ownership. Who truly owns the FMAs? Us Filipinos? That would be nice to say - except that after noticing the extent to which these have been shared, ownership is not as exclusive as it used to be (which, I may ask myself, was when?) That yet opens up another can of worms - is ownership as posted here meant in the spirit of exclusivity? When do you own an art? When you come from another culture and learn this or that art so much so that it shapes your very worldview, can we not say that you as an individual now own it? Maybe not exclusively, since you learned it from your teacher, and he still owns it too. But since you immersed yourself in it so completely, isn't it that you now own whatever part you learned? How about the whole art? Well then, when do you truly learn the complete art? (That last question should be better answered in another thread. Any takers?) Marc Denny raised some important points about why terms differ, based on his interactions with many individuals from the different parts of the Philippines. As a Filipino, I may add that the diagreements are in part due to the various regionalisms that still prevail here. That and the fact of pride in one's own system, which includes the languages and terms used within the system. Does this all matter? It largely depends on the individual student. Mostly, I go by the rule - shut up and let him speak. He's my teacher, so I give him that respect. Its when the students discuss things with other students and teachers that things get interesting.... But there's another point I would like to raise, hopefully without raising hackles as well. It's the issue of representation. If a person presents an FMA system to the public, he/she represents himself as a teacher or authority on whatever that may be. Attention to terminology is actually important here, since how one presents the system, including the terms used to describe its components, says a lot about attention to detail and therefore affects the public image of the art. I should point out this applies to everyone regardless of ethnicity (Filipino, American, Japanese, whoever). It's that question of who's doing the representation and how its being done that I suspect fuels discussions like this. Just to round out this pedantic schmoe's wanderings here: From where I sit, behind this keyboard, in front of the monitor, it appears that the FMAs are undergoing a process of indigenization in the countries where they have been transferred to. The movements are there, but the values are now those of the local practitioners; even the terminology is changing, as a result of attempts by local people to speak the terms of this imported (to them) art. Is this a good thing or bad? It's a meaningless question - it just is. That's it. It does get interesting though when the guys from this country interact with that process, through an e-group like this. Some are indifferent; some don't like it; some are willing participants in it. Sorry for rambling like this, just another tired would-be academic at the end of a long day.... With malice toward none and charity to all Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Leo Fong website Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:13:58 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Try http://www.leotfong.com/ - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Sidney525@aol.com [mailto:Sidney525@aol.com] > Sent: 09 March, 2004 20:07 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Leo Fong website > > > Does anyone have any information on Leo Fong's website, > especially for > ordering books or products. I can no longer find it. > > thanks > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:05:43 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "8th Dan guy" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > - just wondering who the '8th dan' guy is; > Hi Tye, the "8th Dan guy" is Professor Remy Presas closest friend and long time "compadre" from the Philippines, Roland Dantes. he received this degree, like several others in 1999, when the Professor was visiting the Philippines. Things do happen outside the USA. Regards Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis and a "7th Dan guy" or, if you prefer it, Lakan Pito --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:04 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] funny thing with the digest. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi actually I found one thing really strange: I send a contributon about the biggest FMA festiva, (seminar and gala) that ever happened worldwide and what do we get: 6 contributions if Modern Arnis uses the therm "Dan". Wierd. But if this is what is important to you, ok Dieter --__--__-- Message: 6 From: julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:33:35 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Footwork and terrain drills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Someone was asking about different training methods, taking into account footwork and terrain. The first thing this has got me thinking about is the fact that I shouldn't delete any messages before I want to comment on them, because I can't remember who to address them to ;). The second thing is something we've been doing at our gym with Bob Breen. Firstly, put a focus mitt or hook/jab pad on the floor (anything will do for that matter, we just have them to hand), then continue whatever drill you were doing, but one person has to keep one foot on the pad. The training partner circles around him clockwise/anticlockwise switching and closing and getting further away, but the person on the pad has to rotate and stay there or at most swap feet to gain or lose distance. We tend to do this with standard drills such as heaven six and odd six (Inosanto/ Lacosta system) or reduced speed sparring. The other method for terrain/surroundings was doing Heaven/standard/odd as above, but walking closely beside the walls of the gym. This is made difficult for two reasons: Certain angles don't work at all if you have a wall at your e.g.. right shoulder, and you have to accommodate that. My limited knowledge of the terminology means I can't describe exactly what you have to do, but it's like an angle number one without chambering the stick over the right shoulder. What makes this all the more interesting, is that down the side of our gym we have boxes full of pads and bag gloves etc. So we are actually restricting the angles, while walking forwards and backwards among boxes and training equipment. This is great fun and forces you to re-examine the moves and body mechanics of what you are doing, while trying not to loose balance. Note: if you are doing this - make sure there are no live blades among the boxes ;) Hope this is of some use and I've explained it well enough. Peace and respect to all on the list Julian Internet communications are not secure and therefore the Barclays Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the Barclays Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Barclays Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Barclays Bank PLC. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:24:09 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Siling Labuyo Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >P.S. Talk about (unique, but presumably authentic) names and terminology, >I >just saw "Siling Labuyo Arnis" in a recent post. Praytell, what is the >origin of this group? Thanks. That would be me. I adopted/coined the name fairly recently for the arnis that I practice/teach. Although my original training was in Modern Arnis, what I do diverged radically from that base. What to call it? "Used to be Modern Arnis?" "Post-Modern Arnis?" Ick. I've been playing around with names for about two years now, and recently asked here on ED what is the hottest pepper native to the Philippines. One quick response later, and a websearch to read up on the siling labuyo pepper, and a style name was born. I like it - pays homage to the Philippines, and gives impressions of heat, speed, immediate response, and a fiery attitude. Of course, now I'm going to find out that 'siling labuyo arnis' is Filipino slang for 'wearing a prom dress and cruising the dockyards for a date.' Comments? Opinions? Badger Jones Siling Labuyo Arnis _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:09:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] good times Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm sure you all had a great time at the FMA event in Europe. I know I'm just back from a large event here in the US (3 days, 300 people, $65.00 to attend, very impressive list of instructors) and all had a GREAT time. Sure you folks did, too. The best times always seem to be at the breaks and in the evening when people can get together to chat, eat, drink and work on whatever comes up. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest