Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:01:06 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #98 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Firearms and the Martial Artist (WoodyTX) 2. RE: What's in a name... (Danny Anderson) 3. RE: Modern Arnis rank (Danny Anderson) 4. Sayoc Kali in Chester England (Steven Lefebvre) 5. My trip to Alfred & Dieter's Big Shindig (Marc Denny) 6. Kalis Ilustrisimo in AZ (Vincent Bollozos) 7. RE: "8th Dan guy" (Sonny Padilla) 8. Re: Training drills (Kes41355@aol.com) 9. Leo's Alternatives - A Once AH! (Peter Gow) 10. I agree FULLY with Jose Saguisabal (kababayan) (Leo Salinel) 11. Re: Firearms and the Martial Artist (BLillylou3@aol.com) 12. the mother of all beans (David Eke) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "WoodyTX" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:21:10 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Firearms and the Martial Artist Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Regarding firearms and the martial artist: Anyone who says that using a pistol in a defense situation is "too easy" or "cheating" should actually go to a IPSC or IDPA match and attempt to shoot the courses of fire they regularly use. (I'm not accusing anyone on the list of being prejudiced against firearms, but it is a fairly common response among martial artists.) If you're in Australia or England or one of the other disarmed countries, browse http://www.brianenos.com/ especially the forums. Brian Enos is a legend in the competitive pistol shooting world, and he treats competition shooting as many practical martial artists treat their art: as constantly evolving. Many of his techniques draw from martial arts, and his book, "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" is like the "Tao of Jeet Kun Do" for the practical pistol world. It amazes me that many shooters and martial artists don't recognize the similarities between the two groups. You're both training your mind and body to defend yourself and those you love. And for those who think that outlawing swords because of the reckless behavior of a few nutcases is outrageous, welcome to the party. Kurt Schneider Austin, TX --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:59:38 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: What's in a name... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Badger, Your could use "Not no more Modern Arnis" or "No sembalance to Modern Arnis" or or or... Whatever indicates to you, my man, and then watch out for incoming. Yours, Dan Anderson "Although my original training was in Modern Arnis, what I do diverged radically from that base. What to call it? "Used to be Modern Arnis?" "Post-Modern Arnis?"   Badger Jones Siling Labuyo Arnis _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- __--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:09:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] good times Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm sure you all had a great time at the FMA event in Europe.  I know I'm just back from a large event here in the US (3 days, 300 people, $65.00 to attend, very impressive list of instructors) and all had a GREAT time. Sure you folks did, too. The best times always seem to be at the breaks and in the evening when people can get together to chat, eat, drink and work on whatever comes up. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:03:57 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis rank Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Rock, Doing fine. I advertised once that I was the longest, continuously training American Modern Arnis player and currently the highest ranked (at 6th) and got hammered by many that Jim has been in MA longer and that Bob DeMott had as well and both (or minimally Bob) were ranked higher so I remembered the names. This way I don't make the same gaffe twice. Yours, Dan Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:15:33 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Sayoc Kali in Chester England Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, Here is the first Sayoc Kali seminar in England for 2004!! Make time to attend this great event!! Gumagalang Guro Steve L. Sayoc Kali Seminar in Chester, England Featuring Tuhon Tom Kier and assisted by Tuhon Ray Dionaldo Date: April 3 and 4, 2004 Schedule will be 10am to 4pm both days. Saturday Evening: 2 hour Kerambit Class featuring Tuhon Ray Dionaldo (additional fee) Location: Lache Community Centre Hawthorn Road Lache Chester England CH4 8HX The dates and times of the seminar are: Saturday 3rd April 10am-4pm Sunday 4th April 10am-4pm For further information, Contact Ian: Home: 0044-1244-680065 Mobile: 07817663225 E-mail: Ian@horindojo.co.uk Tuhon Tom Kier will be assisted by Tuhon Ray Dionaldo, They will be available for private and group classes prior and after seminar dates. For more information, contact: Ian Thomas, ian@horindojo.co.uk or call: 0044 1244 680065 for more information _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:31:36 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] My trip to Alfred & Dieter's Big Shindig Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > actually I found one thing really strange: > > I send a contributon about the biggest FMA festiva, (seminar and gala) > that ever happened worldwide and what do we get: 6 contributions if > Modern Arnis uses the therm "Dan". > > Weird. But if this is what is important to you, ok > > Dieter That's funny. Who says that Germans don't have a sense of humor? However this festival did reinforce a different stereotype-- that of Teutonic efficiency. Despite a strong turnout of about 600 people, the weekend was well-run and punctual from beginning to end and the little details in between gotten right. Alfred and Dieter pushed themselves heroically and inspired a strong team. For example, when I forgot to pick up the CD of music for our demo on Saturday night after it was over and I went to see if it was still there at the mixing board on Sunday, not only was it there, but it was sealed in neatly labeled plastic-- as were the CDs for all the other demo presenters. Try picturing that at a BJJ tournament! ;-) More substantially, with so many teachers teaching simultaneously and with so many sessions a day, the potential for one fugly cat herding FUBAR was substantial but things moved along without a hitch. Ably assisted as I always am when I'm in Europe by Guro Benjamin "Lonely Dog" Rittiner of Switzerland, I had a fine time in the 5 sessions that we taught. They were: 1) Krabi Krabong (Guro Lonely handled the bulk of this session) 2) Knee Attacks and Defenses 3) Single Stick Los Triques* 4) Double Stick Los Triques* 5) Bando Letha Yoga stretching with the stick (*Given the concurrent thread on terminology, ownership, and hijacking etc. perhaps I best explain this term else I get my tail chewed by one of the usual suspects ;-) "Los Triques" is a term I made up. It refers to DBMA's blending of Kali and Krabi Krabong, the initials of which are KKK--3 Ks. So "Los Triques" means "The Three Ks". No reference here to the Klu Klux Klan, or even to the Filipino independence movement suppressed by the United States, just my idea of humor.) When I wasn't teaching it was great fun to walk around and observe the various other teachers. In no particular order, of particular interest to me were: a) Krishna Godhania: Krishna trains with me in DBMA, but I had never seen him do his "Warrior Eskrima" (GM Abner Pasa) thing. b) Roland Dantes: A warm, gregarious man who kindly flattered me on the contribution of the Dog Brothers. In his early 60s, his arm still fills the sleeve of his shirt firmly and in his sessions he taught FMA stunt fighting. c) I wanted to see GM Caburnay but as already mentioned visa problems left his system's sessions in the able hands of , , , the actual name slips my mind but he was a very nice 6'7" German fellow who blew all to hell my excuses about twisting footwork being for short people and not for "taller" people like me at 6'1". d) GM Bobby Taboada: His strong demo on Saturday may have been the best received of the evening. e) Sunny Umpad: Very impressive. I was bummed that some of his sessions were at the same time as mine. Lots of fun and stimulating of thought. All this was broken up by a tasty dinner on Saturday night (I shamelessly exploited my instructor status to cut a VERY long line) it was time for the demo. FMA demos can be quite exciting visually and these were no exception-- until ours at any rate. Sunday started and finished earlier (again, with remarkable punctuality) Both Dieter and Alfred looked ready to drop and Dieter did not much resist when I suggested that he not drive me to the Dusseldorf airport at 4:15 the next morning and instead send me in a cab. Back home via Zurich on Swiss Air. I like SA-- good seats and good entertainment system: 36 movies which start whenever you want, video games and more. I was quite hooked, both going and returning, with the vid-game "Caveman" which actually had a fairly high IQ engagement with geometric path option discernment. My seat mates where both from South America and we chatted in Spanish when I was not immersed in Caveman.or snoozing. The business of dealing with 9 hour time zone changes is new to me, but the flight went surprisingly quickly. In 8 days on to Spain for the 7th year. I'd like to thank Alfred & Dieter for inviting me to this fine event. By bringing such an array under one roof and with such a substantial number of people in attendance all the while setting the positive vibrations for people to resonate to (as noted, there were no FMA "political" wisecracks) I think A & D deserve a lot of credit for what seemed to me to be fertile cross-pollination that will redound the benefit of all. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Vincent Bollozos" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:22:06 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kalis Ilustrisimo in AZ Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net John Jacobo of Bakbakan International will be holding a Kalis Ilustrisimo seminar. This semiar will bring your fighting ability up a couple notches(what ever arena you fight in). What to bring? Training Sword/Sticks & Goggles. Date: Saturday, April 3rd Time: 10:00-3:00 Cost: Pre-Reg. - $65.00 Door - $75.00 **Must pre-register by NO LATER than March 13th** Place: Ultimate Tae Kwon Do & Premier Athletics 3049 E. Mckellips Rd., Suite 1 Mesa, AZ 85213 To register contact Master George Bell at (480) 830-1870 or e-mail ultimatetkd@cox.net Well worth the money Vince aka Black Grass _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Sonny Padilla" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] "8th Dan guy" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:41:08 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Roland Dantes happens to be our center referee during the seventies in a t.v. program tournament style called KARATE,ARNIS ,FILIPINO . He was with Remy Presas who at that time was also training with my teacher Doc. Lengson. Regards Sonny Padilla Kali Ilustrisimo >From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] "8th Dan guy" >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:05:43 +0100 > >>- just wondering who the '8th dan' guy is; >> >Hi Tye, > >the "8th Dan guy" is Professor Remy Presas closest friend and long time >"compadre" from the Philippines, Roland Dantes. >he received this degree, like several others in 1999, when the Professor >was visiting the Philippines. > >Things do happen outside the USA. > >Regards > > >Dieter Knüttel >Datu of Modern Arnis and a "7th Dan guy" or, if you prefer it, Lakan Pito >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee® Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:17:19 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Training drills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/10/04 10:16:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > The second thing is something we've been doing at our gym with Bob Breen. > > Firstly, put a focus mitt or hook/jab pad on the floor (anything will do for > that matter, we just have them to hand), then continue whatever drill you > were doing, but one person has to keep one foot on the pad. The training > partner circles around him clockwise/anticlockwise switching and closing and > getting further away, but the person on the pad has to rotate and stay there > or at most swap feet to gain or lose distance. We tend to do this with > standard drills such as heaven six and odd six (Inosanto/ Lacosta system) or > reduced speed sparring. > > Julian, I like it, thanks for the idea!!! The thing I like the most about these types of "restrictive" drills is that it immediately takes the mindset from "How do I look?" to "How am I fighting?" I personally don't think that enough FMA'er's get in the water as much as they should (and yet another blasphemous statement from the big mouth in Indiana). Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:12:44 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Leo's Alternatives - A Once AH! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Leo Salinel, I have read your response and understand what you are saying. Your response is very informative and quiet witty - even bought a smile to my face. From an authentic historical point of view I agree you have to be exact, if you can be. You asked of me what alternatives to use instead of "Uneducated and Unlettered" - simply do not use them. If you want to take this off this forum to discuss it further you can contact me at gowp@hotmail.com. Otherwise let's get on with life and move forward with other better topics of interest to the others in the forum. Regards, Peter Gow Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Extra Storage in 10MB, 25MB, 50MB and 100MB options now! Upgrade here! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=265&referral=Hotmail_tagline_external_html&URL=http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-au&page=hotmail/es2 --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:36 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] I agree FULLY with Jose Saguisabal (kababayan) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To my "kababayan" (fellow countryman) Joe Saguisabal: I agree with you FULLY, boss! You could not have put things any better. You were so very able to restate my sentiments with utmost clarity and succinctness. (I wish I had said it myself in the same way that you did; it's just that my latest post was written in extreme haste in between meetings and I had no real chance to edit it at all.) We Filipinos have no problem with Americans or other Westerners who devise or come up with their own synthesized FMA styles/systems and using their own terminology, even if they should choose to use Filipino-sounding words and phrases that sound ungrammatical or even comically ridiculous and funny. We hate it though, when Westerners devise new FMA styles and then insist that it's an indigenous, ancient system and refuse to give credit to the old guros who taught them. (Let them emulate the very good example of the late PG Edgar Sulite who always gave full credit to his many masters everytime he spoke of Lameco eskrima.) It gets worse when you have studied Philippine history, culture, and anthropology at the Philippines' top university and have taken a deep personal interest in the same, only to be dissed by someone who didn't even study these things in the first place, just because you tell him that there is no such this and that, or an organized FMA system called kinomutai or something like that, and then when you have got him on all fours insist that it's all a what's-in-a-name kind of thing, especially when the guy hasn't even been to the Philippines or has been so far away from my country for so long, that he could no longer even write correct Tagalog (or Visayan, or Waray, or Ilocano for that matter). "Sakit na talaga ng mga arnisador na daanin ang di-pagkakaunawaan sa usapang sapakan o hamunan, sa halip na idaan ang mga ito sa maayos, mabuti, at matiwasay na usapan." (It's an endemic bad trait of FMA'ers to tend to course their differences through fistfights or challenges to a duel/fight, rather than through peaceful and enlightened discussion.) I used to be guilty of this myself--now, no longer. :) ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: BLillylou3@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:37:03 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Firearms and the Martial Artist To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Don't bring a stick to a gun fight. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:26:55 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] the mother of all beans Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "I sat next to a Visayan Filipino guro from Mindanao and he told me that the term Kali was indigenous amongst his Muslim friends." My comment "Kali was not used in the Visayas" refers to the island group comprising Panay, Negros, Cebu, Bohol, Leyte and Samar. Mindanao is not part of the Visayas. You cannot be a Visayan from Mindanao unless they moved there from one of the Visayan Islands. This is not sematics take a look at a map. I have no beef with Muslims from Mindanao using the word "Kali". Most of the Muslim communities are in cultural and geographical isolation. They resist change and have been quite effective in this. This is why they can be so easily identified from one another and from other Filipino cultural groups. Also, they are probably the only group that could validly claim that their MA was "part of the mother art". There is a distinct possibility that the same art could have been passed down through 50 generations (from the eighth century) without significant change under these conditions of isolation. The beef with the name is not really with the name. It's the idea that they make the claim their art "is some type of mother art". Arts like Pekiti Tirsia did not exist in this type of cultural and geographic isolation. If they did they wouldn't have Spanish Surnames, be (predominantly) Catholic, live in Barrios, and have significant Spanish root words in their dialect of Ilongo. Notwithstanding the above argument just take a look at ES's "Masters of Arnis, Kali and Eskrima" at the time of the interviews to see what the Tortal family style was called. The Villabrille-Largusa is another case in point. In Guro I's book "The Filipino Martial Arts" p34 Villabrille claims he traveled the "length and width" of The Philippines to study under various masters and then developed his own eclectic style. "Villabrille pooled all the knowledge from all the sources he came across and developed his own system of combat" Largusa studied under Villabrille and yet makes the following comment. "Ben Largusa separates himself from the title of Escrima master. He is a man of Kali, the older Filipino art...but Kali is the mother or ancestral art" p34 C'mon guys if Villabrille pooled all his knowledge and made up his own art, how can Ben Largusa turn around that the same art is "the mother art". The word Kali is just as good as any other word just be careful if you're making some "mother art claim" to go along with it. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest