Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:39:46 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #100 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Angles similarity (Steven C. Drape) 2. Grappling-vs-multiple opponents! (ulfhead@integrity.com) 3. GM Ernesto Presas' Ranking system (Alex Ercia) 4. Uncle Rock's take!! (rocky pasiwk) 5. FMA System/Re-packed for sale & "Garimot Cahllenge" (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. Modern Arnis ( Dan Anderson) (rocky pasiwk) 7. 2nd German FMA Festival (al sardinas) 8. RE: kun tao (David Eke) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 1:44:33 +0800 From: "Steven C. Drape" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Organization: KBS System Subject: [Eskrima] Angles similarity Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry, Ray- I have been lurking recently, and not really addressing comments on the various subjects, but the idea that all techniques are handled the same, regardless of the weapon, just gets me excited! Angles of attack are similar, true, but defenses are NOT the same. The characteristics of the weapon determine the defensive response. An attack with a stick must be handled differently than an attack with the nunchucks. A long blade attack is dealt with differently than a knife attack, and the idea that the defensive response is the same is ludicrious, regardless that the attack is on the same line. This is the number one fallacy in the FMA thats needs to be debunked. I'm pretty sure where it originated, but it for sure wasn't from the Philippines! While the angles are of course the same, the defensive responses are not even close, and I'm tired of hearing this. Steve [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of KBSlogo.gif] --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:55:11 -0600 (CST) From: ulfhead@integrity.com Subject: [Eskrima] Grappling-vs-multiple opponents! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Many altercations are one-on-one to be sure. But what of those rare moments (not so rare in some areas) where you alone are faced with multiple opponents of let’s say two or three? I would not want to be engaged in a wrestling match on the ground while receiving a shoe job from my other two opponents. For me the answer would be to equalize if possible or run if not possible. A .45 cal would be nice but here in East Los Angeles such accessories are frowned upon by local authorities. I suppose I could carry it concealed but I TRY to be as law abiding as possible as I have too much to loose (as we all do) if caught with a loaded handgun under my shirt. Therefore I have it as close as legally possible (in my truck perhaps) but not close enough. So then what? Well, another idea is to carry a good little shiv that is of legal size. Something like a good Spyderco or Emerson would suffice. Folders are nice and concealable and even legal in some areas (although I prefer fixed blades). Plus, we need our “UTILITY” knives right? RIGHT! Seriously though, my point is that while I am very competent empty handed, as most of us are, the reality is that I make sure I can better my odds in any way possible. Thus, I have made sure that the utilization of a practical “equalizer”, such as a knife, is part of my curriculum. This was not difficult for me as a huge part of my training has been from the FMA which incorporates weapon use quite heavily. Through the FMA I have been exposed to all ranges using both weapons and no weapons. So for arts like BJJ are weapons integrated in those systems as part of the system or is it the student’s responsibility to seek out supplemental training? This is just another detail I haven’t had time to research yet and I am always looking to learn more. Thank you for your responses in advanced! - Tyrkon Lawson - --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:24:33 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] GM Ernesto Presas' Ranking system Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FYI, The Ranking of GM Ernesto Presas is the same as the one used by GM REmy. Regarding who the Lakan Walo(8th degree), Samuel "Bambit" Dulay is an exceptional exponent of Modern Arnis/ Kombatan of Ernesto Presas SR. There was a fall out in the organization and he kept the name Modern Arnis instead of KOmbatan. Kombatan arnis now being the evolution of GM Ernesto Presas Sr's art. Most of us who studied under GM Ernesto had to go through the different name changes of his art. Because people only associate the name of Modern Arnis to GM Remy. So Ernesto the younger brother who continued the Modern Arnis legacy in the Philippines had to change his systems name. It was because of the lost of contact b/w the brothers. And Ernesto's own research and evolution of his own art has made his art a totally different system. Although the foundation is the same the product is different. In GM Ernesto Presas Sr's system we have ranks up to 9th degree of Lakan Siyam who is Cristino Vasquez, Lakan walo- Samuel Dulay, Lakan walo- Ernesto Presas Jr. and so on. HOpe this helps. _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:51:12 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Uncle Rock's take!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just thought I would throw in my 2 Cents on Filipino Termin..Termo, termnin.... oh screw it WORDS. You see I have quite often, been accused of Murdering the English Language, most of these allegations are un true, and yet to be proven by the self appointed English police, not to mention names....Marc. Terry, Doc, Dr.B and a few others. So I figure before I get labeled a serial Language murderer, I would keep my Filipino termi.. termn...words in my art to a minimum. I call my art Cuentada De Mano, Cuentada from Manong Ted Buot ( Cebuano ) and De Mano from Gm Presas ( Tagalog ) to honor two of the most influential FMA instructors I have had. other than that most of my teaching is simple English, this is number one, this is number one smashing your head, see how number one hurts, now this is how to stop number one from smashing your head, and this is how you smash your opponent who tried to give you number one, and so on and so on. Simple yet effective. >From the book of Rock " Teach a man to block he will learn the technique" Smash the man first, then teach him how to block, he will appreciate the technique. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:04:46 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA System/Re-packed for sale & "Garimot Cahllenge" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To all, I was not going to touch this issue, but I feel I have to step forward and say what I thought to all this going on in FMA worldwide. Many System keep popping up every year, and there is no Filipino Martial Artist stepping forward and questioned this newly re-packed system, how he became the authority to found his system specially their non-Filipino. FMA Martial arts is being learn little by little and re-packed add some attitude and call it different system and sell it to the public. Numerous masters come up of title that their instructor is never lost the fight or Undefeated. Even themselves claim that also undefeated for numerous competition. Well my anology on this situation is simple: One: Founding their own system is shortened their training to reach the highest level in their particular arts, or just no intention of learning or completing the arts like buying belts faster than earning the belt. What they do is learn a pieces of techniques and claim its works. Attended few Seminar to the few respected master, took a picture with the masters, prints that pictures and post it on their resume and claim it he learn from this such instructor. Learning one day or two day Seminar may be three days to one week training, results mastery, this is what I call the FMA "Mc Donald types" school pranchise theory strictly business, ultimately the FMA is being rape by business minded practitioner. Training in FMA is took us a long years of training to get the maximum result, and takes a lot of fight to get the comfident to get out there and really talk about how effective this arts. This is not earn from few seminar and few hours a day, Well is just my thought. Openly a lot of this masters are affraid to associates with other FMA, affraid to finds out that their skill is not enough and their avoiding being challenge by other FMA'tist like I do. I have no against to this master to teach, but hey somehow they should try themselves to a maximum test, sparring with no gear, and fight multiple, from weapon to empty hand and empty hand to a weapon vice versa. If they able to survive if few combatant, I think is not embarrassing to teach what they used to that experience. No I met a lot of masters, grandmasters, and Champions that never really experience the ultimate test of their skills, yet claiming their arts is effective. Two: Numerous masters, practitioners, is seperates from their instructors and founded thier own system, and dont even give credit to his instructor, often claim different masters just to proved that he is been in different masters. To me this is dis respect to the masters and FMA itself. I think this type of masters need to be challenge his skill as FMA'srtist. Oftenly a lot of Filipino masters are left behind, by their dis honest student, that they choosed to seperates from his instructor, that they dont even gives respect that the instructor deserves. Unless the Tradition of FMA is continues this keep Popping up system every year it will continue. Like the poppers in my computers, is annoying. So the Garimot Challenge all FMA system to test their skills, in friendly fights in two location in July. July 25, 2004 Unpadded stick fighting tournaments (Largo Mano) and fight the Laguna Arnis Federation International members all fighters from Magdalena, Lumban, Luisiana, Majay, Siniloan, Famy, San Antonio and Paete, Laguna. If you won to this fight you eligible to fight me in July of 2005 battle of the Champion a Unpadded Stick Fighting, Largo Mano to Corto. And I dare every system and every self proclaim Grandmasters in the Philippines, Luzon Visaya and Mindanao. This is your chance to show to your followers that your arts really work and see it on the stick not on your words and claim. This is the Tradition of the Garimot Family to test every Grandmasters of Arnis that we heard and self claimed the best, traditionally we personally go and meet this masters, but the modern challenge is to meet in one event when both of us available to attend, then we can test our skills to the combatant that you and me only will face off and the strongest skill will prevail. My Grandfather is known for this, my Dad did this in Seven Provinces that why they called him the "Hari ng Pitong Kabundukan" (King of the Seven Provinces in Arnis 1947-1970). Remember in order to fight me you should be able to ight to the elimination on the Unfadded Tournaments in Paete Laguna, Philippines. Here in the US. Attend our Annual Garimot Arnis Retreat on July 9-10-11, 2004 and really test your skill in padded stickfighting session. We are inviting everyone to see us and join us, I am challenging everyone to test thie skill in this Garimot Retreat. You dont need to be a member of the Laguna Arnis to attend our Summer retreat. We give basic instruction in the morning and Afternoon is Sparring sparring sparring and sparring. Remember the padded stick is thin, is enough to stop your opponent, the fight is well supervised by the Garimot Groups, no ego that we are better that you or vice versa, is strickly training and test your skills to the maximum test of your skill. Contact me @ gatpuno@aol.com . Three days events three days of sparring from thin Padded Stick fighting, Wooden knife fighting, and Filipino Wrestling/Grappling matches. There so many Grandmasters nowadays, that self procclaim to be real grandmasters, test your skills. No malicious intent, just strictly tradition, Garimot Tradition must continue. Arnis, Kali, Estokada, Escrima, Kuntao, Silat, Dumog, Pananandata, Panuntukan practitioner welcome. Email me: Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA E-mail: gatpuno@aol.com Website: garimot.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:07:59 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Modern Arnis ( Dan Anderson) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dan Anderson Wrote: >Hey Rock, >Doing fine. I advertised once that I was the longest, continuously training >American Modern Arnis player and currently the highest ranked (at 6th) and >got hammered by many that Jim has been in MA longer and that Bob DeMott >had >as well and both (or minimally Bob) were ranked higher so I remembered the >names. This way I don't make the same gaffe twice. >Yours Mr. ANNDERRRSONN!!!, what do think thats my impersonation of the bad guy from te movie the Matrix. ;-) Any ways, Robert was pretty much before all of us and Jim and I were about the same time Jim maybe a little before me, he was probably 78 or 77 I was about 78 or 79 when I started attending seminars, actually Jeff Fields and Jeff Owens and Jeff Arnold were in there around the late 70s too but Jim being the old man probably had more access to Remy, I was only 11 0r 12 when I met Remy and lived 80 miles away from Flint Mi. which was a real hot spot for Remy back in the 70's also for Leo Gaji. Anyways Jeff Arnold, Jeff Fields, Jeff Owens, man that's a lot of Jeff's, and Jim whose name starts with J were all fortunate enough to have Robert Demott bring Remy in quite often. I mostly got to see him in Toledo Ohio which was closer to me. As far as longest running student of Remy's with out a knock down drag out fight, I would have to say Jim Power, and then probably you!!! I had a good run from 79 to about 92 and then it hit the fan. Guys like you and Jim are more laid back and maybe more diplomatic, you guys are more like Michael Corleone from the God Father, I am more like Sonny, and Robert well he was more like Frado. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:26:44 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] 2nd German FMA Festival Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was fortunate to attend the 2nd German FMA Festival in Dortmund Germany last weekend and was extremely impressed on how well things went. Although this was a dual sponsored event by Dieter and his partner Alfred Plath, I'm going to give all the credit to Dieter. He is the one I saw doing the most hustling. First, if I was to grade the logistics of the event I would give it an A+++. From the secured parking lot (in the midst of over 1,000 cars looking for a parking space to attend a soccer game), to an entire sports facility with room to contain well over 600 participants, to the friendly but effective security personnel, to the on-time start and finish of the seminars, to the fantastic all you can eat spread of German and Filipino food, to the cultural dances and FMA demos during the Saturday evening gala and finally to the camaraderie among all, this was a great event. The organization of the event allowed every person beforehand to determine what lesson to participate in. Before arriving with my fellow participants, we had all agreed to only participate in the lessons that were given by instructors not based in the USA but we broke that rule when we participated in a lesson given by the great FMA pioneer, Guro Sonny Umpad - we were not disappointed! Maybe, the Germans and other Europeans had the same mindset because after a quick scan of all the seminars given concurrently one could easily see that Guro Marc Denny had the most participants! The following is a brief and honest impression of what I saw either by participating in a lesson, the Saturday evening gala demo or both. If I left off names that meant I did not participate in a lesson or see the instructor demonstrate. GM Bobby Taboada (Balintawak, USA) - Speed and power. Guro Marc Denny (Dog Brother System, USA) - Most popular.Good demo. Senior Master Samuel Dulay (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Philippines) - Participated in lesson and got bored quickly - could be that he was teaching the twelve strikes of Modern Arnis using a knife, However, his demos at night were good. Guro Sonny Umpad (Visayan Style Corto Kadena Escrima, USA) - In the lesson we participated, Guro Umpad taught 5 strikes, blocking and deflecting, timing and then sprinkled it with a demo of sikaran techniques at the end. Good Lesson! Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart (Inayan Eskrima, USA/France) - Good demo. Good Largo. Datu Dieter Knüttel (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Germany) - Good demo.Manage an all day affair, teach two seminars and still demonstrate at 10:30 in the evening - Good energy! Punong-Guro Julio Felices (Felices Kali, Philippines/Germany) - In our lesson we learned a drill of using a long staff vs. two sticks. Basic but ingenious method of substituting two sticks for the long staff. Then Guro Felices threw in a 360 degree movement with the sticks followed by some fancy spinning air kicks. Confession - I walked with my two feet on the floor while everyone else flew from one side of the training area to the other. Guro Felices demo at night - excellent. Guro Wolfgang Müller (Lameco Escrima, Germany) - Missed about 15 minutes but was able to pick up on the good seminar utlizing two stick drills Masirib Guro Jeff Espinous (Kali Sikaran, France) - Decent demo. Guro Visayo Balinado (Balinado Escrima Pangamut, Philippines/Germany) - Although Guro Balinado taught the entire seminar in German we were able to learn the well progressed double stick drill with the help of his assistant Sascha. Good demo also. Special Guest Star: Senior Master Roland Dantes (8th Dan Modern Arnis, Philippines/Australia) - Tribute to Master Dantes at the night show. Master Dantes informed the audience that a law was passed in the Philippines that requires students at all grade levels to learn Arnis. The Master From Berlin -This instructor that had an aerobic/skipping demonstration with a stick (I would definetly not call it any martial art). I respectfully request that any reference first to Filipino or any descent of such then second to martial art be dropped from the system name. This demonstration was similar to the link that some member had provided awhile back. It looked like a joke back then and it's more embarassing in person. If I'm wrong about the instructor's origin, I apologize now. If so, someone please correct me Because we had two people in our group who were just tourists and because we had a long and great day on Saturday (11AM to midnight) we decided to skip Sunday's events and play tourists and head to Cologne, Germany and then to Amsterdam. So I can not comment on Sunday's activities but we basically saw every instructor's wares on Saturday. Overall this was a great event. The biggest FMA event in the world (well at least it felt that way), the Disney of FMA. Dieter, Thanks for making it happen. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:00:16 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: kun tao Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "My friend and researcher Cecil Quirino (of Kris Cutlery) has indicated that the folks from that area of the RP frequently call their arts Kuntao Silat." Kuntaw...kuntao means hand-fist way. Silat means application. Put it together and you get "application of the hand-fist way". "Kun tao" had its origins from the Chinese MA's and is considered to be a closed door style practiced by the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia. It's also traveled up the Philippine archipelago. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest