Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:04:16 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #101 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Founders (Ray Terry) 2. Re: RE: kun tao (Ray Terry) 3. RE: Knife grappling (WoodyTX) 4. Re: Angles similarity (Ray Terry) 5. yet another post on terminology (Michael Massie) 6. angle similarities (gordon walker) 7. my earlier post (sdrape@kbs-system.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Founders Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > One: Founding their own system is shortened their training to reach the > highest level in their particular arts, or just no intention of learning or > completing the arts like buying belts faster than earning the belt. What they do is > learn a pieces of techniques and claim its works. Consider how many of the old timers founded their own systems. Actually were there any that didn't? Angel, Cacoy, Tatang, Floro, Remy, etc. All formed or greatly changed their systems. However I agree that some 20 or 30-something year old that claims to be the Greatgrandmaster of a system is strange and IMHO should be avoided. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: kun tao To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:35:28 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "My friend and researcher Cecil Quirino (of Kris Cutlery) has indicated > that the folks from that area of the RP frequently call their arts > Kuntao Silat." > > Kuntaw...kuntao means hand-fist way. Silat means application. Right. Kuntao, Kuntaw, Kwonbop, Chaun'fa (sp?), Kempo, Kenpo. All mean Fist Method. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "WoodyTX" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:42 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Knife grappling Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So for arts like BJJ are weapons > integrated in those systems as part of > the system or is it the student’s > responsibility to seek out supplemental training? > > This is just another detail I haven’t had > time to research yet and I am always > looking to learn more. Thank you for > your responses in advanced! > > - Tyrkon Lawson - My very limited experience with knives and grappling is that there is some information out there, but it will require lots of training. AFAIK, BJJ does not incorporate weapons. I think a key part is the choice of knife. You probably wouldn't want to grapple with a big ol' Bowie. I've been fascinated by the HideAway Knife, but can't currently afford one: http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php The blade loops around your first two fingers and leaves your hands available for open hand strikes and grabbing. They look tailor-made for grappling and close range. WoodyTX / Kurt Schneider --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Angles similarity To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sorry, Ray- I have been lurking recently, and not really addressing > comments on the various subjects, but the idea that all techniques are > handled the same, regardless of the weapon, just gets me excited! Angles > of attack are similar, true, but defenses are NOT the same. I agree to a point. The basic motion, reaction, footwork, body movement is the same (or at least it is in what I've worked on). But I agree in that the complete defensive counter to a fist coming at your head via angle #1 is not identical to a sword coming at your neck via angle #1. In teaching a counter to the #1, however, once I teach the student how to defend against a #1 punch they should be able to quickly adjust to a #1 kick or #1 blade. Yes? No? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Massie" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:12:58 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] yet another post on terminology Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Being of Spanish descent, I find it curious that no one has yet addressed the fact that many of the terms used in the FMA are taken from the Spanish language, and are not native to the indigenous languages of the Philippines. One might also note that such terms are often bastardized versions of common Spanish words (and I say that meaning no disrespect to the Filipino people - we've only have Spanish here in the Southwest region of the U.S. for a few hundred years, and it's already pretty different from what they speak in Spain.) I just thought that it was worth pointing out, considering all the hoopla over something that is so insignificant. Michael D. Massie MD Marketing, LLC E-mail massie@small-dojo-big-profits.com Web www.small-dojo-big-profits.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." President Theodore Roosevelt "Citizenship in a Republic," Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:19:03 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] angle similarities Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I sometimes train defensive responses along the angles of attack using different ranges, ie kicking, punching, stick, grappling. While its true the defensive applications arent very similar, it really simplifies my training to work this way. It really destroys the need for a set curriculum because all angles can be expressed in any range. Of course I could go to a silat school to find this technique for this range and then a Muay thai school to work this range, then to a bjj school to work this range and then a tai chi school to work this range and so on and so forth. I dont have that kind of money or time. Thats the sense I see in using the concept of angles of attack and defense. One area I still struggle with is using this concept while Im on the ground, especially on my back. This changes a lot of variables and necessitates a change in body mechanics to furnish the same angles. Sometimes different angles work better on the ground because you can destroy your opponents base. Anyhow, I have the flu and am probably not making any sense. Best Regards, Gordon --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:26:52 +0300 From: sdrape@kbs-system.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] my earlier post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sorry, Ray- I have been lurking recently, and not really addressing comments > on the various subjects, but the idea that all techniques are handled the > same, regardless of the weapon, just gets me excited! Angles of attack are > similar, true, but defenses are NOT the same. The characteristics of the > weapon determine the defensive response. An attack with a stick must be > handled differently than an attack with the nunchucks. A long blade attack is > dealt with differently than a knife attack, and the idea that the defensive > response is the same is ludicrious, regardless that the attack is on the same > line. This is the number one fallacy in the FMA thats needs to be debunked. > I'm pretty sure where it originated, but it for sure wasn't from the > Philippines! While the angles are of course the same, the defensive responses > are not even close, and I'm tired of hearing this. > > Steve > Wow! I wrote the above at around 3 am, when I had just gotten home from a friend's party, and obviously shouldn't have posted at that time. Sure didn't mean to come across so aggressively. While I still mean what I said, I should have softened the tone a lot. No offense meant. a rested (and sober) Steve --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest