Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:41:06 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #105 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Bot's (Felipe's) post (Michael Massie) 2. Re: Do they really? (Ray Terry) 3. Cacoy and Angiong (rocky pasiwk) 4. rank (jason couture) 5. Just shoot me now.... (Bobster) 6. filipino recipe (francis.serrano@sbcglobal.net) 7. Re: rank (randy at SPiNInternetMedia.com) 8. Fwd: Question on Bando Stick Grappling and KaliTudo (TM) (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 9. Re: to FMA terminology (Alex Ercia) 10. Re: The Evolution of the Filipino Martial arts into 300 verifide styles (Johnaleen) 11. Fighter and Modern Arnis (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Massie" To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:36:52 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Bot's (Felipe's) post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "With regards to the Spanish terms in the different Philipppine languages, the situation in the present (language wrangle) and the historical situation of Spanish are not comparable, as Gat Puno has pointed out. Spanish was imposed on our people for four hundred years, thus the inevitable influence on our languages. This situation, on the other hand, is where a non-native speaker uses terms from one of our languages, however rightly or wrongly. Bot" Point conceded. Thanks for your personal insights - it's good to get a logical perspective from someone. Now, on to other topics... Michael D. Massie MD Marketing, LLC E-mail massie@small-dojo-big-profits.com Web www.small-dojo-big-profits.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." President Theodore Roosevelt "Citizenship in a Republic," Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Do they really? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:38:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > knife, etc." Then why is it that almost all FMA systems, even the ones > founded by great masters, admit to using their background in Aikido and/or > Judo for their grappling, such as GM Cacoy Canete of Doce Pares. I suspect because he found it superior. Perhaps similar to why he changed the very linear original system of DP to the curvi-linear system... it worked better in real life intersonal encounters (or at least those he experienced). No one system has the best "everything". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:50:11 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Cacoy and Angiong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Years ago GM Buot had spoken to Gm Cacoy and they were friendly, it seems that people always want to get something fired up between Balintawak and Doce Pares' it seems silly to me, both are good arts both have simular roots, Gm Presas and Gm Bupot said the only problem between the two arts were and occasional student from one side or the other not liking each other, the hearts of both arts at the time, Anciong and Cocoy got along very well. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) From: jason couture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] rank Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To everyone - Maybe it's just me but, I'm sick of opening up my e-mail everyday and reading about yet another case of "he stole my rank" or "he doesn't deserve his rank". Who cares!! Rank is crap. Bottom line is, can you defend yourself? If the answer is yes, then shut up and be happy because that's what I thought it was all about. If rank is all you care about and silly titles, then I will have to remove my name from this mailing list. I'm interested in reading about techniques and other practical information not fluff. ===== **JASON COUTURE** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:03:55 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Just shoot me now.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Ray Terry >"I would agree with Baboy :)"< AAAAUUUUUUGGGHHH!!! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:40:55 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "francis.serrano@sbcglobal.net" To: Subject: [Eskrima] filipino recipe Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here is one of the famous filipino dishes: Cup-O-Noodles (yes it is... we send many of a balikbayan boxes full of this stuff) Boil Some water Open the Cup-O-Noodle Package Pour the Boiling water in the Cup-O-Noodle till the cup is full Place a Platito on top and wait 2-3 minutes. ENJOY. Francis [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 01.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of 01_b.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: "randy at SPiNInternetMedia.com" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] rank To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I second that. ; ) --- jason couture wrote: > To everyone - Maybe it's just me but, I'm sick of > opening up my e-mail everyday and reading about yet > another case of "he stole my rank" or "he doesn't > deserve his rank". Who cares!! Rank is crap. Bottom > line is, can you defend yourself? If the answer is > yes, then shut up and be happy because that's what I > thought it was all about. If rank is all you care > about and silly titles, then I will have to remove my > name from this mailing list. I'm interested in > reading about techniques and other practical > information not fluff. > > ===== > **JASON COUTURE** > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:33:01 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fwd: Question on Bando Stick Grappling and KaliTudo (TM) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Return-path: From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Full-name: POWERFACTOR71839 Message-ID: <10e.2d40d983.2d8144ec@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:28:28 EST Subject: Question on Bando Stick Grappling and KaliTudo (TM) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 207 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.98e X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain How much material exists on the Bando stickgrappling that is mentioned by Crafty Dog and influenced by Dr. Gyi?? I am particularly interested in the use of the lanyard for choking as a follow up to the actual stick engagement at grappling range. What is the level of diversification vs the sarong, etc.? Guro Inosanto showed the options of carrying a wounded warrior with the 34" stick and a few other variables that exposed apparently just the tip of the technical iceberg relative to the Maung Gyi material. My curiosity is on fire. This question is specifically to Crafty and students. Are you satisfied with your developments as far as Kali-Tudo (TM) and its current level of efficiency?? When are we going to see a DVD or text on your material?? You have been exposed to many rich sources like Inosanto/Lacoste, Bukti Negara, Mande Muda, Machado Brothers, Rico Chippiarelli, Larry Hartsell, Erik Paulson, and Leo Gaje. I would love to see what the Dog Brothers battle tempered version of Southeast Asian MMA looks like. Thanks for your time, --Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:17:42 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: to FMA terminology Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net About the terminology used by any system of FMA, I believe the reason why there are so many different names for the motions may be the following (based on my experience in the PHilippines) 1. The systems head or GM wants to have a standard name for his movement. 2. The systems GM speaks such dialect. 3. The systems GM found it necessary to give names to his movement so he can ask his student to perform it. Like the japanese/korean/ chinese arts. For consistency. 4.The system's GM feels the art should be organize by terminology. There are more reasons. Biut for us to think terminology is secondary is wrong. I for one have experienced that the student who is foreign to FMA will ask what's do you call this movement again. And he won't be satisfied by an english terminology. He wants to be authentic and ask for the Filipino terminology. The teacher trying to think of a name calls it out. The student later writes it down and makes it part of his notes. Making part of his teaching. I remember asking my instructors for names particularly GM Ernesto Preasas and Tatang ILustrisimo, they would both say that you would not need to know the name of what hit you. You need to know how to fight with it and to survive. Not said verbatim but in similar ways. But if you met both men. They do use terminology of different sorts. Although they both speak Ilonggo and Cebuano. Manong Cacoy would use different terminology and Gm Ernesto would use different terminology because we have two great minds who want to have their style to be unique in its own right. It is like saying Hi. Hello, watzuuupp! Kamusta? And it all means the same. But they all mean well. We filipinos just are not as organize as our japanese counterparts. And that makes use of the BAHALA Na concept. Come what may way of thinking. So let's all just be happy we have the opportunity to learn from these great masters of FMA. I bet Gat PUno Baet who is from Paeta laguna will agree that we both might have different ways of using tagalog in PAETE and CALAmBA, Both in Laguna. I grew in Calamba laguna. And I would go to Batangas and their use of our Tagalog dialect would be somewhat different. I myself use some terminologies spanish or Filipino be it visayan, tagalog or Ilonggo. It is the respect we give our arts. But it is not secondary. It goes hand in hand with all the movement we learn. I am not a master. I am a master at being a student. More power to all practitioners of the FMA. JUst my 2 centavos. Alex _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Johnaleen" To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:50:41 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: The Evolution of the Filipino Martial arts into 300 verifide styles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net eˇvolved, eˇvolvˇing, eˇvolves verb, transitive 1. a. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own. 2. b. To work (something) out; devise: "the schemes he evolved to line his purse" (S.J. Perelman). 3. 2. Biology. To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes. 4. 3. To give off; emit. Almost 90% of my teachers in the Filipino Martial arts have been Filipino, most of them have become Americans, or were Born here as Filipino Americans. My father In-law (my frist long term teacher in the Filipino Martial arts) was born in PI and was sent to America when he was 14 years old to work in the artichoke fields of central California. By the time WWII broken out I believe he was just 18 years old and joined the frist volunteer core out of fort hunter liggot Ca as a forward scout for his unit in PI., at the time the way the military worked, if you joined you got to become an American citizen. Apparently at the time if you fought for this country, you were awarded legalization. What I find interesting is this, what my father in law told me based on the Filipino culture, country and people during and after the war, and up until about the early 80s is that mostly when it came to the martial arts concepts or anything to do with their own arts and culture was secondary to newer concepts, and that mostly in the Philipines the majority of people wanted foreign or western concepts and were delving into them deeply, this includes all other styles of martial arts that were not part of the Filipino culture. In addition, the pride of the history, culture and people did not start to become pride or their cultural bases until after Marcos was ousted. I state this about the younger "majority" not the "minority" of older Filipinos at the time that fought to save there lands and culture throughout the years" but the newer generations at the time. My understanding " and I say this lightly because its based on what old Filipino men have told me, not just my father in law but my older teachers and friends that are either dead now or are over 70 years old" is that its the new generation of Filipino Americans and the new generations of Philippine masters and a few of the older ones that are still alive, are the ones that are now working hard to bring the Filipino Martial Arts and culture back to its people and the world. ( this includes me because of a death bed promess to my father in law) But this push to preserve and encourage Filipino culture, arts and history, is recent and just started evolving over the past 20 or so years. by what I have been told, it was not stylish before that to want to train in Filipino martial arts and it was only taught in secrete to those that sought it out hard because mostly there was not an interest by the young to learn the traditional ways. My father in law was a man that became American and fought for this country as well as his birth country the Philipines. And he kept the culture and his art alive by passing the concepts over to me before he died. In addition, to be honest, I feel that I did not get to train with him or learn from him long enough to feel I deserve what was passed down to me. However, above all that, Did I realize what I was getting into before hand? Hell no, however I will never consider myself a master of anything until I am dead because once I stop evolving, growing and changing then I am stagnate and have an ego that might get me killed. There will always be someone with more skills and knowledge then I have because we as humans are constantly evolving, just like the concepts and arts we practice and teach. for me its all about learning, and i am not out there worrying about having to prove anything in anyway other then by my example. The main lesson I have been taught by each of my teachers, ( this includes something Remy told me once) that its all about the evolution and growing into your skills based on who you are and what your instincts will do, and why its so important to understand and grasp the concepts of flow. Where the style came from or who started it means little when your out there fighting or trying to teach someone else. Your training and teachers and the kind of student you evolve into is more important then who's system your passing on. Nothing stays the same and to represent your teacher in his art form by his name has to be done just as he has taught it to you without evolution, change, or additions. And based on everything I have learned over the past 30 years about martial arts and Filipino martial arts its all about change, addition, and evolution. Final note: for all you youngins in the Filipino martial arts, as far as I can tell and based on what I have been taught. Colored belting or traditional 12 step Ranking systems in FMA were non-existent until professor Remy decided to market his art and bring it to the world. However, professor remy was a karate man as well as a Filipino martial artest. Mostly before that, you trained, you fought and one day you were told you could teach and were given a teachers rank. i.e. Guro. As far as paper, ranks and so forth goes: I have said this before and I will say it again, Ranks Titles and paper are nothing but " YOUR LICENSE TO LEARN" because until you apply your skills in all areas that the skills cover, this includes teaching, fighting, and using them for positive social enhancement your nothing.. And yes, I do consider myself nothing, why? well because I am still learning my trade and skills. And I hope to always be a lifetime student who learns her most important lessons and education through applying my skills. Hell with over 300 styles of FMA out there its impossible for me to ever get board or find out I cant learn more. Therefore, because we have followed a path of evolution based on all the other masters in the world encouraging us to do so, we now have over 300 styles of Filipino martial arts systems. We should be proud of that instead we bicker and fight over who is the best and who has to prove it. I have a full list over 300 styles now in practice. I have 30 more new styles to verify yet before its printed in a book. Yes, Its amazing how diverse and how evolved some styles are, but what I have seen though my own eyes and research, is that most have core FMA concepts backing there styling's, even in their very evolved forms. The criteria I have set for official styles is that it evolved from a master system, that its still in practice, being taught and someone is ranking in it officially. If its not then its not on the list. The intent is to have this list checked by the masters in PI during the up coming world championships in June. Once that is done, and I have their blessings as well then perhaps I cant, get beat up too badly by the Global Filipino Martial arts community, and it will be published. Until then no, because if I did I would end up with thousands of Male Eskrimadors yelling at me that I have either spelled something wrong or that I have not included their arts. And as I am legally dyslexic its an easy thing for me to do i.e. " Misspell" and Trash Grammar. Ms J bows deeply.. Lifetime student/CEO FATE www.fate-organization.com Evolution: God . . . created a number of possibilities in case some of his prototypes failed- that is the meaning of evolution. (Graham Greene (1904-91), British novelist.) --__--__-- Message: 11 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:59:03 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fighter and Modern Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > My question here is did this guy tell everyone how tough or great he is, > because if he did then I support your point. But if he didn't and he simply > like's to pass on his teachings to others what is the point! Not everyone > claims to be a great fighter or even wants to fight. Rocky, Are we talking Professor Remy Presas to your question? If he is I would say yes to the answer, he claims that he is the best and better than anybody. He open said during his teenage time, he was challenge so many times in his school, but he is better than them, so he was assign student police. He also claim he is the one, who spread Arnis or Filipino Martial Art not only in US , the whole world. I would say he did a good job creating an empire of Modern Arnis. But it does not mean all of them can really fight, some of them can teach, but cannot fight, some can fight but dont know how to be a teacher. Like on my own student, I could pick who's on my student can be a good fighter, teacher and just used the art for physical reason (exercise). My friend, also I just want to point it out, some of those people claim their Undefeated" is for real. Two type of "undefeated" title. One those who never fought that why undefeated, and two those people that fought and really not losing a fight. I dont know where you will categorized them to this two. All in all, I still respect and consider Professor Remy as one of the best instructor out there, and I am glad that I got a chance to learn from him, personally and his student. He will always be my father and I always be his son for the rest of my life. He shown me the positive and negative of a teacher, the strenght and weeknesses of the fighter. One thing I am sure Professor, did a big impluence of FMA in the whole worlds. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA E-mail: gatpuno@aol.com Website: garimot.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest