Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:00:07 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #108 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Chicken Pork adobo variation (gordon walker) 2. Fire hardened Stick/Pegafettas recorded (GatPuno@aol.com) 3. Balintawak/Not a complete arts? (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. Snake Pit Gym in Wigan (Ollie Batts) 5. Master Dulay and Master Vasquez (ABANICO) 6. LaCoste and Silat? (=?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?=) 7. Re: 2.nd FMA-Festival in Germany (ABANICO) 8. Lakan Pito (ABANICO) 9. Escrima Schools (Clint Cayson) 10. Re: Balintawak/Not a complete arts? (=?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?=) 11. Some thoughts.... (jose saguisabal) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Chicken Pork adobo variation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Regarding the adobo recipe, you should try adding 1/4 tbsp. of sugar, hard boiled egg, or potatoes to add texture. Thats how my wife makes it. Regards, Gordon --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 2 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:11:25 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fire hardened Stick/Pegafettas recorded Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I don't agree with this one. Pigafetta (Magellan's chronicler) described > many of the natives having fire hardened sticks. They used these sticks in > combat. In most martial arts there is the use of the stick or staff, the > Chinese You can disagree with me this is what we believed and this is what all of 11 instructors of mine told me. I am not saying there are not true what Pegafetta wrote about the native that running with a Fire hardened wood. It is a question, which in which first right? "Stick or Blade"? You are right stick first before the metal, the ancient time. But our arts of Arnis in Laguna (I cant talk about the others) is based on the Blades and the (brokil or burokil) stick is used as a tools for training. (Like Samurai blade they created the shinai and bokken for training purposes). That is why our techniques has not change up to now is still very much blade oriented theory, stay away to the attack and avoid getting hit and deplect & hit and hit & deplect theory blocks is last sort if there are no other choice if situation permits. I just want to tell you also, I have been a wood worker for all my life, and for your info wood it's cant be hardened, no matter what you do on it. There some wood really is scietifically hard already (check list of good hardwood in Home Depot) some wood are as soft as cotton. So even the Pegafetta s claimed is hard to believed. He is another a crafty writer that can make a history without really knowing his pencil proved, that he is a good writer and a good writer put thing in his "Obra Maestra" to be more uniques than the other writer. We burn rattan, wood, bamboo for the purpose of straightened them off not hardened them, and provably fired hardened word that pegafetta used is refer to those pointed stick used as "lance" or sibat. I know a lot of this believed in hardened the wood by soaked it to the linseed oil and etc. I tried and experiment and the result is negative after few days the wood will dried and oil will just help your stick to be slippery. specially if your hand sweat a lot or let say your stick got wet what ever the case it might be guaranty the wood that soaked in oil will be slippery to hold or to grip. Tip for drying the wood: As a wood worker, we have what we called its drying time of wood. If you get them fresh from the forest or luber store, we dry the wood in air dry to keep the fiber together so is more resilence, though, flexible and absorb more hit without breaking easy and the other way is sundried which is not good for wood, is dried faster than the other but it will live a lot of crack and force the fiber to seperates to each other instead of tightly hold each other. The heat dried them fast and the fiber reacted seperates to each other the result is crack and become brittle, few heat only the wood will chips fiber by fiber. Okay thanks, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA www.garimot.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:34:21 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Balintawak/Not a complete arts? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net David Eke wrote: > > "In Bailntawak, a system that a fellow REK practitioner use to practice, > teaches you until you get to the instuctor level and then encourages you to > take up another style (ie:/ jiu-jitsu, wing-chun, etc.) and mix it in with > your Balintawak to make you complete." > Wowww!!! This is big for me, I didnt know that Balintawak is not complete, need help to other MA to be complete? Well According to GM Bobby Taboada, it is a complete arts with a strong emphasis of empty hand and I can see it to Kuya Bobby's movements correct me if I was not telling the truth. > There are numerous "schools" of Balintawak with variations on variations. > For myself, I was never taught the above philosophy, however, Jose Go > developed Tat Kun Tao Kung Fu which integrates Balintawak's simplicity with > a closed door Chinese MA style. Interestingly, drop the sticks and > Balintawak's counter to counter looks and feels like Wing-chun. > > > The only thing that I can say about this is: This is one of those pratitioner that complete his homework, that why he need to copy to his classmate.. I do believed somehow, they dont complete their lesson in Balintawak. I seen few player in Balintawak, and I am dont believe, there empty hand is adapted from other MA. Dont get me wrong, But completely learn other MA to complete the fighting system adding empty hand, it wowww, its neww to me. Balintawak Practitioner, do you agree with this post? BTW: Rocky, my name is Hell Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet but GM Gat is okay too, but i prepared to be called Guro Abon if you are having a hard time to call my whole name. Even Mr Baet is fine or Hell Baet, Baet, Abon, or Garimot. Thanks, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Laguna Arnis Federation international US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA www.garimot.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:14:36 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Snake Pit Gym in Wigan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky wrote: "My father who was a former Katch as Katch Can fighter before WWII and lived in England for two years and fought at the Weigans (sp) snake pit, use to tease me about us Karate guys jumping up and down in our pajamas and slapping each other and scoring points. So when the first UFC came on T.V. I got kinda geeked up and told my dad all about the Gracies and how Helio had never lost a fight, my dad just smiled and said ok lets watch it. So I pay the $50.00 for pay per view and one of the first fights we see is Royce, we watch it for about 5 minutes my dad gets up turns off the T.V. and says lets go get some Ice Cream!!! I was like dad I just paid $50.00 for that, he said well you got screwed if you wanna watch someone roll on the ground and dry hump someone's leg for a half hour hell the dog will do that for free!!!. So we went and got Ice Cream on the way he says so these guys claim to never have lost a fight!! I said yes, he said I don't believe it he said maybe they never lost a dry hump competition but not a fight cause they don't know what a NHB fight is. In Katch as Katch Can, their are no rules you can bite, pull hair, Eye gouge, break fingers, even bite fingers off, that's NHB'd. I basically couldn't argue with him, after all he was the one that was blind in one eye hand had a chunk of his shin missing in the shape of a human bite! So its basically a matter of how you look at things I guess. I know my first full contact Eskrima match lasted less that 5 seconds I went high he went low, he broke my shin I laid on the ground in the fetal eskrimador position, which I made famous!! It was that fast. "Anyone who claims to have never lost a fight or never been hit in a fight has probably never fought." Now ain't that the truth! It was the Snake Pit Gym in Wigan, England, run by a guy called Billy Riley. If you do a Search on Google you'll find an article or two about the Snake Pit, and the Catch-As-Catch-Can Wrestling style. For a good read, see if you can pick up an original copy of Blue Blood On The Mat, by Atholl Oakley. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:55:33 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Master Dulay and Master Vasquez Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Message: 3 >From: "Alex Ercia" > > >FYI, The Ranking of GM Ernesto Presas is the same as the one used by GM >REmy. > >Regarding who the Lakan Walo(8th degree), Samuel "Bambit" Dulay is an >exceptional exponent of Modern Arnis/ Kombatan of Ernesto Presas SR. There >was a fall out in the organization and he kept the name Modern Arnis instead >of KOmbatan. Kombatan arnis now being the evolution of GM Ernesto Presas >Sr's art. > A few corrections on that mail: Master Samuel Bambit Dualy is ranked Lakan Pito, 7th "Degree or Dan" from the IMAF-Philippines (International Modern Arnis Federation). He resigned from Ernesto Presas´organisation in 1992. He was the special training partner of Professor Remy Presas, when he returned to the Philippines several times in the late 1990ies. He is now the executive secretary of the IMAF - Philippines and Chairman for External Affairs. >Although the foundation is the same the product is different. In GM Ernesto >Presas Sr's system we have ranks up to 9th degree of Lakan Siyam who is >Cristino Vasquez, Lakan walo- Samuel Dulay, Lakan walo- Ernesto Presas Jr. >and so on. HOpe this helps. > > Master Christino Vasquez holds Lakan Siyam (9th "Dan"), but is not connected to Ernesto Presas any more but to IMAF - Philippines and MARPPIO. Regards Dieter Knüttel --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:09:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] LaCoste and Silat? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I recently watched volume 6 of Terry Gibson's Maphilindo Silat series in which he stated that LaCoste just started to train Silat with the hands closed (fists) instead of open hands. I've never heard before that LaCoste trained in Silat. Could anyone please clarify this? __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Mit Yahoo! Suche finden Sie alles: http://suche.yahoo.de --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:12:18 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 2.nd FMA-Festival in Germany Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From: "al sardinas" >Subject: [Eskrima] 2nd German FMA Festival > >I was fortunate to attend the 2nd German FMA Festival in Dortmund Germany >last weekend and was extremely impressed on how well things went. Although >this was a dual sponsored event by Dieter and his partner Alfred Plath, I'm >going to give all the credit to Dieter. He is the one I saw doing the most >hustling. > Hi Al, you are right, when you saw me foremost on the festival, but I have to hand on the credit to Alfred, because he had let uns say at least 75% of the work before the festival and getting all of the people and masters together, making the paperwork wioth the applications, orrganizing the hotels and the overall structure of the festival. I had some other duties, like setting uop the local organisation, the registration, security, saturday night dinner, arranging the halls and setting up the festival orga-team in the yellow t-shirts and making the trainign plan. This is just a very rough list, because there was just so much to do and organize. But I must share a great deal of your the credit with him, and I do that gladly. > First, if I was to grade the logistics of the event I would give >it an A+++. From the secured parking lot (in the midst of over 1,000 cars >looking for a parking space to attend a soccer game), to an entire sports >facility with room to contain well over 600 participants, to the friendly >but effective security personnel, to the on-time start and finish of the >seminars, to the fantastic all you can eat spread of German and Filipino >food, to the cultural dances and FMA demos during the Saturday evening gala >and finally to the camaraderie among all, this was a great event. > >The organization of the event allowed every person beforehand to determine >what lesson to participate in. Before arriving with my fellow participants, >we had all agreed to only participate in the lessons that were given by >instructors not based in the USA but we broke that rule when we participated >in a lesson given by the great FMA pioneer, Guro Sonny Umpad - we were not >disappointed! Maybe, the Germans and other Europeans had the same mindset >because after a quick scan of all the seminars given concurrently one could >easily see that Guro Marc Denny had the most participants! >The following is a brief and honest impression of what I saw either by >participating in a lesson, the Saturday evening gala demo or both. If I left >off names that meant I did not participate in a lesson or see the instructor >demonstrate. > >GM Bobby Taboada (Balintawak, USA) - Speed and power. >Guro Marc Denny (Dog Brother System, USA) - Most popular.Good demo. >Senior Master Samuel Dulay (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Philippines) - >Participated in lesson and got bored quickly - could be that he was teaching >the twelve strikes of Modern Arnis using a knife, However, his demos at >night were good. > You must have seen only the beginning of Master Dulay´s knife class, because after the 12 strikes, which were the base of the lesson, he went to combinations and concepts with the double knifes, which was quite interesting. >Guro Sonny Umpad (Visayan Style Corto Kadena Escrima, USA) - In the lesson >we participated, Guro Umpad taught 5 strikes, blocking and deflecting, >timing and then sprinkled it with a demo of sikaran techniques at the end. >Good Lesson! >Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart (Inayan Eskrima, USA/France) - Good demo. Good >Largo. >Datu Dieter Knüttel (7th Dan Modern Arnis, Germany) - Good demo. Manage an >all day affair, teach two seminars and still demonstrate at 10:30 in the >evening - Good energy! >Punong-Guro Julio Felices (Felices Kali, Philippines/Germany) - In our >lesson we learned a drill of using a long staff vs. two sticks. Basic but >ingenious method of substituting two sticks for the long staff. Then Guro >Felices threw in a 360 degree movement with the sticks followed by some >fancy spinning air kicks. Confession - I walked with my two feet on the >floor while everyone else flew from one side of the training area to the >other. Guro Felices demo at night - excellent. >Guro Wolfgang Müller (Lameco Escrima, Germany) - Missed about 15 minutes but >was able to pick up on the good seminar utlizing two stick drills >Masirib Guro Jeff Espinous (Kali Sikaran, France) - Decent demo. >Guro Visayo Balinado (Balinado Escrima Pangamut, Philippines/Germany) - >Although Guro Balinado taught the entire seminar in German we were able to >learn the well progressed double stick drill with the help of his assistant >Sascha. Good demo also. > Special Guest Star: Senior Master Roland Dantes (8th Dan Modern Arnis, >Philippines/Australia) - Tribute to Master Dantes at the night show. Master >Dantes informed the audience that a law was passed in the Philippines that >requires students at all grade levels to learn Arnis. > >The Master From Berlin -This instructor that had an aerobic/skipping >demonstration with a stick (I would definetly not call it any martial art). >I respectfully request that any reference first to Filipino or any descent >of such then second to martial art be dropped from the system name. This >demonstration was similar to the link that some member had provided awhile >back. It looked like a joke back then and it's more embarassing in person. >If I'm wrong about the instructor's origin, I apologize now. If so, someone >please correct me > >Because we had two people in our group who were just tourists and because we >had a long and great day on Saturday (11AM to midnight) we decided to skip >Sunday's events and play tourists and head to Cologne, Germany and then to >Amsterdam. So I can not comment on Sunday's activities but we basically saw >every instructor's wares on Saturday. > >Overall this was a great event. The biggest FMA event in the world (well at >least it felt that way), the Disney of FMA. >Dieter, Thanks for making it happen. > >Respectfully, >Al Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis > Thanks for coming all the way fromt he US to our event and also for the nice review. I hope to see you sometimes again Regards Dieter Knüttel Ex FMA-Festival organisation --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:10:07 +0100 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Lakan Pito Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tye Botting wrote: > BTW, you mentioned you were Lakan Pito - congrats; I was unaware > that you had been promoted. Must've happened while I was getting > married/finding a new job/moving? Hi Tye, congratulations for getting married. I went to Manila in March 2003 to train with Professors highest and oldest "students": Christino Vasquez (Lakan Siyam, 9th "Dan"), Rodel Dagooc, Rene Tongson, Jerry de la Cruz,Victor Sanchez (all Lakan Walo, 8th "Dan") as well as Samuel Bambit Dulay (Lakan Pito, 7th "Dan"). They formed the "council of the elders of Modern Arnis" and I received Lakan Pito (7th Degree or "Dan") from them. The rankig was also approved by thew IMAF - Philippines Roberto Presas (Lakan Sampu, 10th "Dan"), Roland Dantes (Lakan Walo, 8th "Dan"), Professor Soteco (7th Degree or "Dan") and others. Regards Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:20:24 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Escrima Schools Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I'd like to know if there is a school that uses Henry Jayme's form of Escrima or Tat Kun Tao here in West Palm Beach, Florida. It's been awhile I haven't practice Escrima (21 years and counting) and I forgot most of the forms I learned from Master Jayme in Toledo City, Cebu. I don't know if he still remembers me. Any help I can get is much appreciated. Thanks. Clint V. Cayson Boca Raton Resort & Club 501 E Camino Real Boca Raton, FL 33431 561.447.3204 | 561.869.7784 fax --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:34:55 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?= Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Balintawak/Not a complete arts? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I talked with two Balintawak teachers in Cebu. Henry Jayme said Balintawak is a complete art and Nicomedes "Nick" Elizar told me he had also integrated other martial arts such as boxing in the empty-hand portion of 'his' (by this I mean his interpretation of)Balintawak. __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Mit Yahoo! Suche finden Sie alles: http://suche.yahoo.de --__--__-- Message: 11 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:29:48 -0800 From: "jose saguisabal" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] Some thoughts.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net 1. I really can't remember details, but in an earlier post, I believe I saw that there is a Guro who issues teaching certificates that are only good for ONE YEAR??? What's up with that? (I know, just trying to start some discussions) 2. Mr. Mark Denny: Anyone can make his own (blended or not) FMA system, whether Filipino or not. But I will always make a noise when someone tries to pass it off as an older art that was "passed down through generations", rather than crediting his real teachers. 3. David Eke: You mean you don't put SOY SAUCE in your adobo???? Jay ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest