Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:03:18 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #109 - 1 msg X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. "Hijacking" the FMAs (steve kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:23:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] "Hijacking" the FMAs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, When learning any art or language, the first thing you do is learn vocabulary and build a foundation. The second thing you do is speak your new language (literally or figuritively) as much as possible. In time you develop a style of self-expression that is uniquely yours, based on what you have been taught. Give credit when appropriate and don't dwell on who taught you. The end result and the quality of self-expression are all that matters...unless of course, learning the art exactly as your instructor does it is the desired end result. In that case, fly his flag as much as you feel is necessary. I never really understood that though as I thought that the point of learning any art was to make it your own. Best, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA >From: "jose saguisabal" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] "Hijacking" the FMAs >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:50:23 -0800 > >Hi everyone, > >First, let me say that I loved David Eke's comments concerning the >"hijacking" thread, and am in total agreement. It is important for those >who create their own systems, techniques and especially, TERMINOLOGY, to >give credit their due. If you assigned a name--whether in Tagalog, Visayan >or English--it is only fair to the student that he knows that master >what's-his-name coined the name, when he termed it, and the history behind >the technique or style. To tell a student that this art has been around for >generations or even centuries is not only unethical, it's fraudulent. In >the Filipino martial arts, its commonplace for experienced fighters and >masters to create their own systems and techniques. Often, students can >tell you who came up with a technique or strategy, and almost always can >give you the history behind his style. I don't think anyone has a problem >with assigning names to your own creations and ideas. It's when some guy >(American or Filipino) forges his own system, a >nd starts telling people that his art is generations old. Even worse: >telling students that this newly created or newly named style is older and >more "authentic" than other systems out there. > >Put yourself in the shoes of a little known instructor from deep in the >province who is afforded the opportunity to come to the US and teach his >art. He's got plenty of fighting experience under his belt, been studying >the art for 20 something years, and can demo any technique from his >art--while sparring (something most of us cannot do). Now some kid with a >few seminars under his belt (worse if he's a "certified instructor") walks >in his class asking about "hubad" or one of 100 drills he learned in his >seminars, "pananjakman" or whatever else is commonly known only in America. >This authentic teacher, complete with fighting skills the kid may never >encounter, is now looked at as less knowledgeable or credible because he >doesn't offer "energy drills" or "kinomutai". This is a very real >experience for many transplanted masters and teachers. There are many >foreign-born masters who don't read magazines and websites to find out that >every Filipino style is supposed to do limb destru >ctions. What has happened is that a few FMA leaders with a lot of media >exposure has defined what is the FMA, here and abroad, and those who don't >fit that definition are looked over for someone who does. This is why many >teachers who arrive to our shores are given this advice by business-savy >teachers: go along with it, use these terms, teach your art as an add-on >art to JKD/Kenpo/etc., and you'll make money. > >I have my opinions about why these changes were made, but I would rather >say it in private email exchanges than a public forum... > > >"Without wanting to get the "Kali" thread going again, I don't remember >anyone disputing the historical significance of the word "Kali". This is >well documented. The point being that a number of people (including me)who >trained in the 80's and early 90's in the Philippines made the comment that >the word Kali was not used in the Visayas. I also made the point that a >number of styles back then were known under the banner of Arnis and over >the >the last 20 years changed their name to Kali."> > >Many schools that adopted the name thought that by doing so, were keeping >their style's name free of foreign terminology. So intead of using a >Spanish word, they use a Hindi term...Then again, some wanted to pass their >art off as THE "Mother art". And when the mother art theory was blown >exposed, they either had to stick to the name to save face, or keep the >name and continue telling the mother art story to newbies. Then you have >those who claim their art is hundreds of years old and predate Spanish >influence, hence the prehispanic name. But all you need is an old issue of >Black Belt magazine, or old newspaper clippings to see that older than >their use of "Kali", is their use of "Arnis". Again, there's nothing wrong >with saying "I use the name Kali for my style because it sounds >better/don't like Spanish terms/etc.." But when Guro Joe says "This is the >ancient style of Kali that was passed down in secret for hundreds of years, >even though I studied Arnis I have always known thi >s style I am now teaching the public, yada yada yada..." expect others to >make a noise. > >"May not agree but will always respect..." >Jay > > >____________________________________________________________ >Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages >http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest