Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:33:17 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #110 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Balintawak - Complete (rich parsons) 2. anyone know the email of Rich Reynolds of Texas Kali Assoc? (Leo Salinel) 3. (no subject) (Alex Ercia) 4. Master Sonny Umpad's Corto Kadena (Alex Ercia) 5. Re: LaCoste and Silat? (Mike Casto) 6. Self Defence and the 'touch of death' (julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk) 7. Arnis School in Manila (Ronnie Buctolan) 8. Yip, over and out (Marc Denny) 9. Re: LaCoste and Silat? (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Master Sonny Umpad's Corto Kadena (Joseph Camins) 11. The many shades of Balintawak!! (rocky pasiwk) 12. Hijacking (julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk) 13. Sonny Umpad's location (=?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?=) 14. Re: Balintawak and "Completeness" (bhubbard@cogentmethod.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:16 -0800 (PST) From: rich parsons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Balintawak - Complete Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Abon, It is in the person not the art for completeness. It is true that most if not all of the original techniques for Balintawak were single stick, and it was upto the student to do the translations to the empty hand. So, if someone does not see the translation then it is not there. Some instructors like Bobby Taboada do teach the empty hand now, and others still leave it to the student to apply the motions to empty hand and to knife or what have you. Or at least this has been my perception of my Balintawak Training. With Respect __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:48 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] anyone know the email of Rich Reynolds of Texas Kali Assoc? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi guys, I need to email the webmaster of the Texas Kali Association, Rich Reynolds. Does anyone know his email address or that of Mandatus Leslie Buck? Any help or info would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much and more power to you all! ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:20:15 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dieter, I stand corrected in sir Bambit's rank. Sorry mistake. But he is also one of the best senior instructors of ERnesto Presas from the mid 80's to around 1994. He was my senior instructor including Sir Cristino Vasquez, Tiger Dave, and the rest of the crew. I used to see you at our old Gym in Quiapo. When you used to train with GM Ernesto. You had a falling out with him just like the others. I was also one of them. But eventually I got back with GM Ernesto. It was our last group of Instructors(Samuel Dulay, Cris Vasquez, Mark Santos,Etc) that had a falling out because of some silly rumor. Anyways, I still regard these gentlemen a big contribution to the Modern Arnis or FMA of the Philippines. I visit Master Vasquez everytime I go home. Both Sir Bambit and Sir Cristi is helping out the MARPPIO organization too. Coming from Sir Cristi. It's their own contribution to the legacy of the great Prof. But mind you, their movements are more influenced by GM ERnesto. They helped GM Ernesto develop what is now called Kombatan Arnis. Without their sacrifice, skill and knowledge of the FMA Kombatan will not be what it is. I wish they would get more credit for it. They do it for the arts. Hopefuly by what you are doing they will slowly get their fair share of credit. More power to you Dieter. Take care. Alex _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:27:12 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Master Sonny Umpad's Corto Kadena Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anybody know how I can study this art of Master Sonny Umpad? Alex _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] LaCoste and Silat? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:48:45 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'ver heard Guro Dan say many times at seminars that Lacoste had a wide base of training which included, among other things, Silat - and, if memory serves, it was specifically of the Southern Philippines variety. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moritz Sisenop" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [Eskrima] LaCoste and Silat? > I recently watched volume 6 of Terry Gibson's > Maphilindo Silat series in which he stated that > LaCoste just started to train Silat with the hands > closed (fists) instead of open hands. > I've never heard before that LaCoste trained in Silat. > Could anyone please clarify this? > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de > Mit Yahoo! Suche finden Sie alles: http://suche.yahoo.de > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:02:26 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Self Defence and the 'touch of death' Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky Pasiwk recently mentioned two things I would like to continue. Number one: 32 years of training and STILL not found the 'touch of death' - what else HAVE you been doing all this time? ;) Number two: "You don't need to be a tough guy to teach self defence." I am not wanting to disagree with Rocky on this because I don't. I would just like just to see what the FMA world thinks of this is as regards Geoff Thompson's thoughts. Geoff Thompson (at www.geoff.thompson.com) is famous (in England at any rate) for his expertise in 'The Pavement Arena'. The Guest Writers section of his site is fantastic; Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing, Traditional Karate, Military and 'Reality' stuff. One of his guest writers states that it is not possible for people without genuine experience to teach self-defence. Also that doing so is in fact dangerous for the students. I neither agree nor disagree. What do you lot think? Peace and respect to all on the list Julian Internet communications are not secure and therefore the Barclays Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the Barclays Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Barclays Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Barclays Bank PLC. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ronnie Buctolan To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis School in Manila Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello guys, I'm in Manila, and I'm interested to study FMA. I want some help in getting the addresses of arnis schools here which may fit my schedule of 7:30pm onwards during weekdays. Thank you and regards to all of you out there! Ronnie Buctolan Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:10:54 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Yip, over and out Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof Jay et al: > 2. Mr. Mark Denny: Anyone can make his own (blended or not) FMA system, whether Filipino or not. But I will always make a noise when someone tries to pass it off as an older art that was "passed down through generations", rather than crediting his real teachers. > > Jay I trust I am safe from you then? Would that all be as precise as you are here. Many rocks have been heaved at all users of the name "Kali" from some quarters. Yip, Marc (note spelling please) a.k.a. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] LaCoste and Silat? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:20:32 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I'ver heard Guro Dan say many times at seminars that Lacoste had a wide base > of training which included, among other things, Silat - and, if memory > serves, it was specifically of the Southern Philippines variety. Watching Lacoste move on film (taken at a park in Stockton) shows a silat influence, at least to my eye. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Joseph Camins" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Master Sonny Umpad's Corto Kadena Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:18:37 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Alex, I am a student of Sonny's. Contact me offline with a phone #. He's a very private man so I'll have to give him your info so he can get in touch with you. Thanks, Joji joji_c@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Ercia" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 21:27 Subject: [Eskrima] Master Sonny Umpad's Corto Kadena > Does anybody know how I can study this art of Master Sonny Umpad? > > Alex > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] The many shades of Balintawak!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guru Abon, You must keep in mind that their are many styles of Balintawak, in Gm Buots, who even GM Tobaoda admits is probably the most original, to Gm Bacon in the earlier years, of course GM Buot left in 1974 to come to the U.S, so GM Bacon may have changed some things. But in the Balintawak that GM Buot teaches, we have no ground fighting, no double stick fighting, no stick and dagger, and we have no twirling of the stick, like fig.8 abinico, bonda y bonda, rodonda, or anything. I have seen tapes of Gm Buot and I have played around with guys like Mike Zimmer from Van Cuver B.C and they have these things. So some where along the way they got added, now GM Tobaoda trained with many great GM's so he probably picked up a lot of stuff. I would like to invite him to Michigan maybe this fall, to do a seminar, I think we have a lot in common, I like the way he moves, when he talked to GM Buot a few years back he said his Balintawak was different, more of the Grouped version. GM Buot's Balintawak is very hard to teach to more than one at a time, when I first started teaching it I had to practically beg him to get his blessing to teach a class of no more than six people. While many a is complete their are some that just specialize and I see nothing wrong with that, if I really wanna learn ground fighting, and had limited funds and time I would probably pick, BJJ, if I wanted to learn to box I would go to the kronk gym in Detroit ,and so on these are only my thoughts, and of course I have not seen all the ground fighting arts, or knife fighting arts, I am just saying that if I wanted to learn a certain aspect of fighting I would probably go to those known for it. If I had the balls I would do pure Katch as Katch Can for empty hand, but alas I like my joints bending the way they do!!! My blend of things in Cuentada De Mano, looks a lot like grouped Balintawak, when we are single stick, our empty hand looks a lot like Silat/Pekiti/boxing and when we are up close my fathers Katch fighting techniques take over, in fact most of my empty hand stuff looks very American/European, but I still use a Filipino term for my art, because its where my heart is, I started in Korean, did, judo since I was 7 under my father, and Wing Chun Do from 11 to 18, but I found the Filipino arts when I was about 11 years old and they just made something click inside, I will probably always be a Filipino martial artist at heart. But when I started to teach I did not want to change anything GM Buot gave me because I promised him I would not change his Balintawak. And lets face it it is common knowledge to everyone that GM Presas trained me a whole lot different than 95% of his people, so why call it Modern Arnis, I offer classes in Modern Arnis, but they are in Modern Arnis, not all the of my fathers stuff, and the non traditional and non grouped Balintawak Remy gave me. So with Gm Buots blessings I came up with CDM. I think I am not for sure but I think that is kind of what happened to many of the Variations of Balintawak, they added where they were weak, like most martial arts, again this is why I think the Filipino arts are some of the finest in the world, their willingness to adapt and change to pick up what they need to make their arts whole. The only thing that I think need to be made clear is that when you teach a slightly modified no matter how much you need to make that change to your name like Gm Tobaoda does, he calls his art Balintawak Cuentada, which is great its now his original art, and is distinguishable ( if that's a word) between, Gm Buots, Balintawak, Moncol's Balintawak and so one. Anyways just my 2 cents Rocky P.S David thanks for the recipe, I had that once only with soy , and potatoes, it was one of Remys favorite meals, my mother made it for him all the time. I am looking for this desert that Irwin Balarta's mother use to make it was kind of a jello, only golden brown and tasted like coconut, man that stuff is awesome, my fat butt probably doesn't need it but man I would love to learn hoe to make it. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:45:30 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Hijacking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all As for all this 'hijacking' of technical terms and changing of all the 'true' or 'original' words and terminology for things by the Americans - imagine how I feel... I'm English ;) Peace and respect to all on the list Julian Internet communications are not secure and therefore the Barclays Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the Barclays Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Barclays Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Barclays Bank PLC. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:15:57 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Moritz=20Sisenop?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Sonny Umpad's location Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In which country is Sonny Umpad residing? __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Mit Yahoo! Suche finden Sie alles: http://suche.yahoo.de --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:41:11 -0800 From: bhubbard@cogentmethod.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Balintawak and "Completeness" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, I know this has been brought up before, but I want to question again the idea of a "complete" art. Looking at the developmental process involved in learning the martial arts we can see a consistent movement toward "completeness". But I think that ultimately there is no such thing as a "complete" art. What art can recognize , strategize, address, and then train for every possible contingency? It seems a bit of an overreach to claim that your art is "complete" in that sense. The best we can get is a constant development toward that end. I would like to pose a few questions to those on the list that claim that their art is complete. What is your definition of "complete"? What are the components of your art that make it attain that definition of "complete"? How does a proponent of a self-defined "complete" art explain the existence of techniques and strategies that exist in other arts, but not their own? Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest