Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:01:48 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #114 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: ED Vol 11 #112 - Complete Art (bhubbard@cogentmethod.com) 2. RE: Balintawak (David Eke) 3. Re: old joke (Dale) 4. Self Defense (rocky pasiwk) 5. Re: Re: Re: Complete Art (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Footwork and terrain drills (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:03:41 -0800 From: bhubbard@cogentmethod.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: ED Vol 11 #112 - Complete Art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Al, You said: "Bart if you feel that your journey is over and you have not found a complete art then that is fine. But maybe if you keep on walking you will find it." That's an interestingly condescending way to counter my contention. To address your personal point, my journey is not over and my walking is still going on. And actually I AM interested in Garimot and I have great respect for your teacher. And this is not an attempt to attack anyone, but rather to question the use of a term that is rampant in the martial arts in general and not just FMA. Back to the issue of my questions: Q. What is your definition of "complete"? A. Unanswered Q. What are the components of your art that make it attain that definition of "complete"? A. In simple terms a complete art for me encompasses weapons, empty-hand, kicking, wrestling, internal arts,etc. Q. How does a proponent of a self-defined "complete" art explain the existence of techniques and strategies that exist in other arts, but not their own? A.Regarding the existence of techniques and strategies that exist in other arts and not in Garimot, the answer is simple - concepts. Let me address your answers point by point. Question 1 remains unanswered. I understand that the components you mentioned are supposed to suffice as the answer, but they don't. What is it that makes that art complete? How do you define it? What is the essence of completeness that your art professes? Question 2 was answered but the response contained a very convenient "etc". The real answer lies in that "etc". Do you include firearms in your weapons? Handguns, rifles, machine guns, sniping, improvised guns? Which types? In your grappling do you use environmental weapons or hair pulling? My point is that the "etc" is unknowable and thus the completeness can't be attained. Question 3 also has a response but it is incomplete. "Concepts"? Do those concepts exist in your system as well? So for instance the spiritual aspects of Ninjitsu are also found in your system? What about the poison training in some styles of Silat and the concepts involved in who and how to apply those skills? Does your art train that too? How about defensive driving concepts as taught by some Israeli reality training gurus? Just because your mind can make the stretch and put things together doesn't mean that your art contains it those principles natively. Firstly, I believe the arts are about defending yourself and the people and things that you care about. By developing ourselves within that specific framework of need we can allow ourselves to grow in ways that more forgiving enterprises such as quilting or chess cannot do. But overall, effectiveness is primary. Now developmentally, training in the arts is first a process of taking our predecessors' discoveries and applying them to our own lives and circumstances, making them our own and then using what we've learned to develop further and discover new principles and methods or rediscover ones that have been lost. My problem with the idea of completeness within an art is that it gets in the way of the efficacy of the art. By believing that what you are doing is complete, you are excused from developing and furthering the arts yourself. By believing that what you are doing is complete you are making yourself blind to the fact that no one can know all things. Essentially your mind becomes closed and the system becomes stagnant. This is especially dangerous with the confidence in fighting ability that people gain in training. I also get that my understanding of what is "complete" may differ GREATLY from what someone else may believe. I'm interested in understanding what those other opinions are though, because some people that I respect greatly view their arts as "complete". Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:04:57 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Balintawak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Kuya Bobby Taboada its seems to me a very good boxer >type of application, and strong lock control to his version. Just wahta I >have seen him doing to numerous time that we give Seminar together in >Florida. GM Bacon was a boxer and boxing footwork was one of the things he integrated into Balintawak. I gather, one of the similarities of the various styles/schools of Balintawak is that they have all kept the linear footwork. The other reason is that boxing as a sport is extremely popular in the Philippines, many ex boxers seem to be drawn to the FMA. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dale" To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:17:12 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: old joke Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> The way I heard it was 100. One to do it and 99 to tell him he wasn't qualified. See you in the sticks, Dale --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:36:46 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Self Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc Wrote: >What's more the school's spinmeisters are now running around saying "See? >See? Using our ultimate martial art he only got stabbed three times when >facing a guy with a knife! See how good we are?" Honestly this makes me >tremble in disgust because this school was aptly described as "Pirates" not >to long ago. They'll steal anything they can get their hands on, teach it >wrong and then claim that it was in their system for generations. Giving >neither credit for their source or going back to that source to see if they >have it right You da man!! We got to hook up some day! Rocky --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Complete Art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > To the question of how one can continue to practice and be able to roll, > flow, kick and grapple, etc. the answer is not many. But I do know of one > person who can do all that and more. He is not a master of one but a master > of many. He is my instructor Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet. Super. Glad to hear of your support for your instructor. Now, hopefully w/o offending you or Guro Baet, who was the last BJJ black belt Guro Baet rolled with and submitted? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Footwork and terrain drills To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:51:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Someone was asking about different training methods, taking into account > footwork and terrain. > > The first thing this has got me thinking about is the fact that I shouldn't > delete any messages before I want to comment on them, because I can't > remember who to address them to ;). More drills... One thing that Suro Mike Inay used to do was place a plank (~16 in. wide and several feet long) up on bricks and then feed you lock-n-block until you dropped. Literally. Then he'd do variations on that theme, e.g. draw a line on the plank that you could not go over. Then feed you strikes from a variety of weapons, short and long. Or make you stay on one end of the plank while he would circle off the plank, feeding lock-n-block. Or put you in a tight corner of a backyard fence, again feed you lock-n-block. Or in a narrow passage-way. etc etc etc. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest