Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:30:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #115 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. self-defence (julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk) 2. FMA Festival in Germany (Emanuel Hart) 3. RE:Old Joke (Young Forest) 4. Rolled and Submitted (al sardinas) 5. Food For thought (rocky pasiwk) 6. BJJ/Wrestle etc. (GatPuno@aol.com) 7. Definition (al sardinas) 8. Re: BJJ/Wrestle etc. (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: julian.gilmour@barclays.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:35:29 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] self-defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all Re: my original self-defence query and all the responses - I'm really enjoying the banter! Marc MacYoung said a couple of things I found really interesting. "There is a difference between self-defence and martial arts". If I apply this to my own situation, this could be a real double-edged sword. I have been studying 7 to 10 hours per week at the Bob Breen Academy for 2 years having done some Muay Thai beforehand. Compared to many (if not the vast majority) on this list, this makes me a baby martial artist with very little skills/experience. However, I do not live in a horrible area and am 'not the violent type'. I've been close to lots of trouble before now but have always used avoidance/good attitude/humour/whatever to minimise the likelihood of physical violence on me and mine. I am a lifelong honours student of the school of "if you don't want to mess with a load badasses fighting with fists, bottles and knives - don't go to where they hang out". Even when these badasses have turned up where I've been It's always been fine so far(touch wood). This may qualify me as one of the undefeated grandmasters recently mentioned, in the field of self-defence. Summary: low MA skill, 100% effective self-defence (again - SO FAR!) The other side of the coin is that I can kickbox a bit, grapple a bit, use weapons and currently concentrate a lot on sparring without legs ie. western boxing/panatukan. This I believe is more than the average Joe in the street on a skills front. However, put me in the street in a situation where I am inexperienced, without a referee and where I may get my head jumped on if I go down, (and this is where Geoff Thompson comes in again), I may panic and freeze. At the very least I will have to deal with intense adrenal response and most likely fear. This is why I am currently interested in the 'pavement arena' concept to be try and be a (DARE I SAY IT!) a more (WAIT FOR IT!) complete martial artist. Summary: MA ability, potentially dangerous lack of self-defence capability. Luckily, I'm also a keen student of Taoism and Zen, or all this would make my head hurt just thinking about it. Peace and respect to all on the list P.S. NOT THE FACE! :) Internet communications are not secure and therefore the Barclays Group does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although the Barclays Group operates anti-virus programmes, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses being passed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Barclays Group. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Barclays Bank PLC. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Emanuel Hart" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:50:06 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Festival in Germany Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello list members, I would like to congratulate Dieter and Alfred on the successful FMA festival in Germany. As one of the many instructors, my experience was a positive and memorable one. It was great to see in person some of the personalities I have heard about for a long time. The facilities for the event seemed to be just the right size. That is to say if there were any more people attending, it would be a tight fit. Considering the fact there a soccer/football game going on at the same time things worked out great. Once all the halls where located, it was easy enough to move around. The security and other personal all did a great job to make people feel welcome and at ease. All in all, the event was a timely one. Dieter and Alfred worked well with the rest of the instructors to keep things moving. They made it look easy. ;o) For me personally the only time the flow stopped was right before our demo when Masirib Klement and Masirib Hanosh were mistakenly introduced as my students. I don’t want to take credit for Suro Mike Inay’s work. I don’t think I will ever hear the end of that one. It gave them just a little more intent to hit me up there. Not that they needed any more. ;o) I must admit going into this event the area of curiosity for me was how all these different instructors and styles where going to get along in the same place. In the end, it all went down without any big story and everyone seemed to get along. I give credit once again to Alfred and Dieter for picking professional instructors with the appropriate attitudes. As far as I could tell the number of participant was well above the last event. The public seemed to enjoy the different choices and personalities for instruction. Everyone seemed to find their groove and enjoy the festival. The idea is a great thing for the FMAs in general and it is obviously something the public wants. I’m looking forward to the next one… 2006? ;o) Thanks again Dieter and Alfred for a great experience. Until the next time... Regards, Emanuel Hart Inayan Masirib Guro www.inayaneskrima.com hart@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Systems International --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:03:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE:Old Joke Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ><a >light bulb? Four - one to screw it in and three to say "we have that >technique too, but we do it a little differently.">> > >The way I heard it was 100. One to do it and 99 to tell him he wasn't >qualified. Obviously I practice an inferior, incomplete version of the joke... Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:38:54 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Rolled and Submitted Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Now, hopefully w/o offending you or Guro Baet, who was the last BJJ black belt Guro Baet rolled with and submitted?" Ray, To be honest with you I can not verify that the people Gat Puno Baet has rolled with at his seminars were black belts in BJJ, Vee-Jitsu, and Ju-Jitsu or any other grappling martial art. However, I have never seen him lose. GP Baet is not adverse to challenges and I know he would welcome the opportunity to test his skills. I think you will agree that easy wins and challenges become boring after a while. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:07:40 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Food For thought Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ok, here is a question I put towards the pressure point worshipers, a few years ago, after the UFC came out ( Thank you Gracies ) people use to run around and say with my tui tai abilities I can stop anyone instantly at any level. level 1 will stun, level 2 will knock out level five is death or what ever their thing was, and they all claimed to be able to do it in combat, standing up, not grappling when it really does have a little more chance at being effective. So my question which I thought was, and still is legit is this. Why are these people wasting their time running around doing seminars for a measly $1,000.00 to $2,000 a week end, when you could simply fight a UFC, or extreme battle or one of many NHB'd competitions, blow right through the competition, hell probably in less then 10 seconds a fight an win, 20k to 100k per event, 2 to 3 times a month!!! WHY is there no one doing this WHY, if I could I'd be doing it every day. If I had this ability their would be no Gracies, or BJJ, I'd have all their students, the DB's sh**T I 'd waste them chumps in a day, hell I'd knock Top Dog out with one of my patented Pasiwk's pulverizing,paralyzing, pressure point moves then I'd dress him up in a bozo nose and a J. Edger Hoover party dress, and Crafty you don't even wanna know what I 'd do to you!!!!! After the years of abuse I have taken about my writing skills. Oh!!!! you guys are sooooo lucky!!! ;-) Sh*&T I 'd have so many students, I would rule the martial arts world!!!! All praise Rocky !! :-) DOn't worry Ray you'd get a seniors' pass DOAH! :-0 Anyways I think I make my point... Oh and if your really want to prove you are the badest thing around, head on down to central America, at least when I was their in the late 80s, their were always some kind of human cock fight to be found, and believe me the loser was quite often done forever! right now you can make about $2,000 a day in Macedonia, Sareavo (sp) Bosnia, the Chec Republic as a body guard to some of the rich and twisted over their. So what are all of these people waiting for, go prove yourself!!! I see it this way, I am confident in what I teach, I am confident in my ability to protect myself and my family. Am I undefeated, NOPE, am I the toughest guy NOPE, do I have the most complete art, I don't know, probably more than some less than others, mostly its what you put into it. My fighting days are gone and cut short do to having a body that just doesn't co-operate with me. In someways I am probably a better street fighter now then I was when I was in my 20s and lean mean and very athletic. Now that I battle a serious weight problem, I realize that I can't spar with someone for 15 or 20 minutes, I must get it over with NOW!! because of that I think I am a better teacher now, I to not concentrate on techniques that require real physical fitness to work. Because although physical fitness is something we should all be concerned about for our own health and well being, your average person coming to you to learn self defense is not always going to be the 22 year old athlete. In fact if an art requires absolute physical fitness to work, I would say it may be a good Martial Art, but not a very good street art or self defense art. So to anyone that is so complete, I say give me a call, I'll manage you and we will be rich!!, Iam sure their will be tons, of money, chicks, a movie deal, chicks, lot of travel and chicks, did I mention the chicks, man we could have it all, my brains and your complete unbeatable art, we'd be on top of the world!!! Rocky " All Praise Me" Pasiwk --__--__-- Message: 6 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:16:15 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] BJJ/Wrestle etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/18/04 6:47:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > To the question of how one can continue to practice and be able to roll, > > flow, kick and grapple, etc. the answer is not many. But I do know of one > > person who can do all that and more. He is not a master of one but a > master > > of many. He is my instructor Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet. > > Super. Glad to hear of your support for your instructor. > > Now, hopefully w/o offending you or Guro Baet, who was the last BJJ black > belt Guro Baet rolled with and submitted? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > > Rey, If you asking me, do I need to name them? That totally dis-respect to my student and to the rest of BJJ groups. I have several student taking BJJ, Vee-Jitsu, Ninjitsu, Aikido, Karate, Kung-fu, Wing Chun and other arts, they left their school to learn from us. But I asked them not to leave their original arts, to see the different of what I am teaching. We cannot say that our ways is better that this groups of MA like I said, but we can teach how someone can easily counters techniques to what giving techniques before even got to the end of techniques. I respect all MA specially FMA, because I am a Filipino, everytime we talk about FMA is in general. If anyone talk about FMA negatively, even though is not my particular system their talking about, is annoyed me. Why? Simply I am Filipino and Filipino is very much love everything and anything to do in the Filipino people and culture. I could just stay away if other MA saying, they can kick our ass (FMA). On early time of my teaching, I have several experience here in US. Guro Alfredo is witness to some of them. I was insulted, challenge, dis-restpect, and I stand on own feet to prove to this people that I am not just here to teach FMA, I am here to show them how the FMA is a very much functional arts. One of the account is in 1996 one of the reputable Wing Chun/Tai Chi, Instructor here in Florida, visit my class and watch my teaching, and in the middle of my teaching he went o my student and start correcting my own student. I warned him and the warning get repeated ended up to me to do acceptance of what he want, which he is challenging my personal knowledge in the arts. I turn around and I told Alfredo to stop me if got to the point that I cannot control myself. In few second I put this guy in the head lock until his face its turn purple, which Alfredo stop me right in time. I have student study with Valente BJJ, here in Florida for almost 4 years before the BJJ is become famous. He came to the class as a visitor, and if you are visitor at that time, I asked them to join the class if they wanted too. I was asked question how to get out on certain position, like guard, arm lock, leg lock and more. Then assimilates all techniques that we are taking at that time, then he asked me if the person is not compliance to the techniques what I am going to do? I have to show him the reality, I told him, are you challenging me he said no, but I can feel it that he's doubtful to the ability of Harimaw Buno that I am teaching. So I told him lets go to the ground and wrestle and see if you could lock me and lock you or put you or me in submission hold. We wrestle for about 6 minutes, so I lock him several times, and he un-succesfully stop trying. He become my student since then. I admired the techniques that BJJ is teaching out there, If I dont have the training I have, he can easily controll me every time we get to the clinch. Today I have several of Student have BB in BJJ is not nice to claim that I subdue them, becaused I am not doing those to show them that BJJ is not enough, is strictly teaching new way or additional tip to their expertice. Some of them start with weapon first becaused they taught they have enough skill in grounds, then later they ask me if their welcome to join our Buno class. Also I must admit that they are hards competitors in regards of the grounds fight, but weapon they need a lot of works. I elect not to mentioned anymore name, just to protect the other not involve on this discussion, since I am in a very good term with them, is not worthy to ruind the relationship just to proved my point of view. I hope you wiil respect that its sense. Onother account that I test FMA is when I lost everything in Philippines. I was teaching in Eastern Laguna Colleges in Arnis under (MAFP) Modern Arnis Federation of the Philippines as PE for college and High School. Ten of college student, elect to join my class but never attended a class of mine even one. So dropeed them all to my class, and off-course no-class no grades and no-grades no-graduation. Needles to say they they comfronted me and asking what is goin on, at that time I am 22 years old, and some of them is same age as I am and few of them is older thatn me. I was ambush attack by them, outside the school 4 of them are waiting for me and to the North 3 is waiting for me and to the South 3 is waiting for me too. So I was attack by this four and I have no choice only to fight back and do the necessary techniques so I can get away, I am able to scape to the four, and run towards the North and 3 of them entercept and as I am fighting the 3 the 4 is already right behind me so at one point I am fighting 7 and I was able to scape again to the 7 and run towards South and not knowing there 3 waiting there for me, so I was fighting those 3 the 7 is already right behind me, at one point I was fighting 10 and believed me is the hardest test of my life and carrer as a Martial Artist. 20 hand and 20 feets against one fair of hand and one fair of feet, I have to do what I gotta do, I recieved so many punches Kick, elbow and who know what else I recieved. But every pucnch that land on me I believed I able to grab some othem and break it the limbs(elbow, wrist), and every kicks that I recieved I believed I break some of their knee, ankles. This not just a fight this is fighting for my life I dont know how I am able to scapes to those 10. Then I run I think faster than ever I can run mix with undrenaline and scared feeling that It might be my last day in this worlds, I run like forest gump. The very next day I was arrested by Police and put it on Jail, till my appeal to the local court. I saw the 9 out of 10 has bondage to their limb. I was amazed to my self I did those? I was bruises on my body, but amzing I dont remember getting hit to the face on the scenario, may be becaused i keep moving so much. But anyway I lost my taching carrer, my Modern Arnis Certificates was comfiscated by the our President and forbid me to teach and fight in Arnis. I learned that even though I was self defense, I still lost the case, becaused of politic inpluencial game in the Philippines. I dont understand but at the end the only questioned that make sense is "who am I" and who are those 10 people, I am their MA Instructor and their are my students "Case ajjorned". Experienced wise, I think I have several that I can say I test myself and the arts effectiveness. But we all should know also when to run, scapes, and hides to stay alive, there no way you can block and see all the attacks specially if is multiple opponents. I was stab, several times, experience to get cut by a knife and gun points several occasion, and look all of those experienced I am still here still talking to you I quess I did something right on my training. I was in in Philippine Army Training but AWOL 2 weeks before I gradutes to be enlist caused the un-controllable situation. I work as Mayor 's Body Guard during election on the 80's is scarry more that anything, i experienced, but h ey I am still alive, and I hopefully I am going back there may be I wont survive anymore. I hope we or everyone understand that the Martial arts is only there to be use as a bridge to get to the other side meaning safety. I am a strong believer of cross training, I think is good, but in certain points, I dont agree to narrow your vision on one arts, Its okay to learn other arts, and see there differences, and absorb as much as you can. Theres is no time I said to my students that this art is an answer to all of your question, the answer is yours to find. Martial arts system is a bridge to understand the phisical and mental readiness of on fighter or practitioner, readiness meaning, when you understand the whole aspect or purpose of the Martial arts. Ray, I hope none of this post I ever dis-respect other arts and person, I am speaking on my own vision of the art specially FMA. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:46:25 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Definition Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bart, I think you have the contention of condescension mixed up. But to get to the heart of our disagreement you say a complete art does not exist and I say it does First to appease your view on my answering your questions I will modify my answer. A complete art for me encompasses weapons, empty-hand, kicking, wrestling and internal arts. Okay, that's it and no etcetera. And remember the key words in my statement are "for me". For the sake of efficency and not to drag this out I will make one more comment. You wrote ". By believing that what you are doing is complete, you are excused from developing and furthering the arts yourself. By believing that what you are doing is complete you are making yourself blind to the fact that no one can know all things." I agree with these statements. What I do is not complete but I know if I wanted to learn how to fight or defend myself in different scenarios I do not have to seek another system or style for an answer because again "for me" the Garimot system is complete. Bart, I'm always looking for a system or style that has techniques that can not be countered by a Garimot concept and maybe someday I will find this "Sedna" but for now I have not. It's out there but my path has not crossed that bridge yet. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] BJJ/Wrestle etc. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:41:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If you asking me, do I need to name them? That totally dis-respect to my > student and to the rest of BJJ groups. Not really, not at all. People train together all the time. Not in an environment of anger, but in one of working together to make each other better. In that environment someone wins on one particular day and someone doesn't. There is no shame in that. My question was simply in response to the statement that you had never been beat, assuming that meant in any discipline given the context of the "complete art" discussion. That was why I asked, as one data point, what BJJ black belts (or even BJJ purple belts) you had submitted recently (in the last year or two). Now this is not to say that a person that has not submitted a BJJ purple/black belt isn't a good martial artist or a good FMA instructor or even a good grappler. Just getting back to my point about how difficult it is to be great at everything. I still claim it is pretty much impossible. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest