Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:01:50 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #116 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Self Defense (Marc Macyoung) 2. MA's habits (rocky pasiwk) 3. Re: self-defence (Todd Ellner) 4. FMA on the Table !!! (Jorge Penafiel) 5. Lucky/not crazy not stupid (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. complete art (gordon walker) 7. You drag me in to it (GatPuno@aol.com) 8. Rocky the manager (Phil Hurcum) 9. 1 million knife throws (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:20:25 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Self Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky said > Honestly this makes me > >tremble in disgust because this school was aptly described as "Pirates" not > >to long ago. They'll steal anything they can get their hands on, teach it > >wrong and then claim that it was in their system for generations. Giving > >neither credit for their source or going back to that source to see if they > >have it right > Rocky said > You da man!! > We got to hook up some day! To give credit where credit is due the term "pirates" and the "claim it was in their system for generations" was used by a gentleman named Ventura Silva from San Diego. Mr. Silva is one tough hombre and smart too. His comment summed up a problem I had been trying to describe for a while. As for hooking up, next time you're passing through Denver drop me a line. Coffee or beer are my two favorite pasttimes :D M --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:27:30 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] MA's habits Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was talking this mornig to a firend I had seen in a long time we use to box together, at the Weddel boxing club in Dearborn Hgts, when we were kids, and we were talking about different habits of fighters from various regions of the world. For example English boxers are very up right fighter, Philly fighters tend to be crouchers, Detroit fighters tend to drop their lead and tuck deep into their lead shoulder, this traight developed in the 20's 30'40s at the Brewster Center in Detroit, where my father and his 2 brothers fought, it has carried on to the present day Kronck fighters most notably was Tommy Hearns. In Martial arts, here in Michigan, the old style TSD, befroe the sold out and went TKD was famous for their powerful kicks and figthing out of a side stance, in Anciongs Balintawak, we tend to stand simular to a boxer wit our sticks tip back slightly, in Remys Balintawak, the lead hand was always forwardand empty hand behind. I was wondering if other could chime in about things that they might do that make people say oh! ea he must do such and such art. Example JKD guys practice for hours posing like Bruce Lee ;-) , the thumb and little pinky extended, other three fingers down, you know what I mean, you can tell a JKD guy from a mile away, how about the Serrada guys, anything different about the Cabilis, or Inay guys, in Pekiti here in Michigan, the weight was almost always on the back foot and lots of movement with the stick. Well what say the rest of you. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Todd Ellner To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: self-defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Julian Gilmour writes: > Marc MacYoung said a couple of things I found really interesting. "There is > a difference between self-defence and martial arts". This has been news to the martial arts community. The self defensers recognized it a long time ago. Martial arts can be very useful in self defense if taken in the right spirit. But they are different games. Consider this. Even if the MA system is top drawer, reality based, street lethal, first cousin to Sinanju, blah, blah, blah it's still something that takes a while to learn. The really good ones have training methods and exercises that are useful early on but only really come into their own several years down the line. Typically a self defense or professional defensive tactics course has to be self contained and capable of developing useful skills in a very short time. The same thing isn't going to fill both needs. If it's a good one well taught the martial arts program can take you much MUCH further than the self defense one. But it takes a bigger investment in time and effort to get there. For people whose real need is protection skills right now a martial arts program will probably be a mistake. There are also things that an experienced skilled martial artist might look at in a SD program and say "That's not quite right," or "That would get you in real trouble with an opponent with some real chops" or even "That's sloppy and inefficient." And he or she is probably right. But the answers are easy to remember, flexible enough to be used in a variety of situations and work well enough often enough that they shade the odds enough in favor of the defender. Look at something as simple as attitude. A lot of very good martial artists who've been in a lot of fights say that ideally you should be calm, relaxed and intensely focused during an encounter. Cool. But it takes a long time to get there. For "right now" something as simple as "keep hitting no matter what" or learning not to be afraid of being afraid or even, like the first modern self defense book put it, turning "Fear into Anger" will get you through a lot. > The other side of the coin is that I can kickbox a bit, grapple a bit, use > weapons and currently concentrate a lot on sparring without legs ie. western > boxing/panatukan. This I believe is more than the average Joe in the street > on a skills front. However, put me in the street in a situation where I am > inexperienced, without a referee and where I may get my head jumped on if I > go down, (and this is where Geoff Thompson comes in again), I may panic and > freeze. At the very least I will have to deal with intense adrenal response > and most likely fear. This is why I am currently interested in the 'pavement > arena' concept to be try and be a (DARE I SAY IT!) a more (WAIT FOR IT!) > complete martial artist. > > Summary: MA ability, potentially dangerous lack of self-defence capability. Good martial arts training will put you in stressful situations on a regular basis so that you will get used to fighting when you are scared, nervous and full of adrenaline. You will be comfortable being uncomfortable if that makes any sense. Good self defense training will do the same thing. I really wonder how often people with decent training panic and freeze and get stomped. It makes great marketing copy for the people teaching workshops. But is it the reality? I have some suspicions, but I don't know. And neither do the people whose rice bowl depends on convincing people that only paying for their training will prevent combative vapor lock :-) --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:08:43 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA on the Table !!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First, heartfelt greetings to FMA digest and it's community. Hello to friends Gat Puno Abon Baet and Al Sardinas. Kamusta lahat!! Being that this is my first attempt to get in and partake in the table topics (below) most recently addressed in the digest, the points I mentioned are my own candid thoughts, so, gentlemen just ride on with me as to what I have to say. OK?? 1.. FMA/names of art/terminology/titles/Pop-in Instructors : Every day that I open my emails, I'm always looking forward to reading the FMA digest. Being Filipino, I love that there is a digest and people talking about FMA, the activity to which I refer to as the second love of my life. It really doesn't matter whether they call it Arnis/Eskrima/Kali - all the same as we all know and be glad that at least it is known or named in numerous ways. I love it when specially non-filipinos try/attempt/adopt to speak our lingo and utter terminologies even if it is as crooked as the crooked street in San Francisco. Some stand to be corrected but blessed them for trying and giving me the "kicks" just by listening to them. MATitles/Ranks, definitely well deserved to as all for the recognition and accolade contributed to the art and for being there longer than most people been alive. Certainly, I would not call my Instructor on the first name basis or you either all in the name of " respect and gratitude". Titles could be anything under the sun, as the society we live in today is measured by our accomplishments either in academia/training/service/etc. It has something to do about putting things in perspective, order, and giving value to job well done in an already chaotic world we live. In addition, those claiming to be above what they really are,,,it's all about putting "hype", creating or advertising a business per say. Our business is FMA and we need these attention getting hooplas. Bottom line, all of the above is great for FMA - we are a vastly growing and recognized MA today. Pop-in FMA instructors as annoying as spam mails, but hey,, they are there to spread our art. These guys needs our help - so why not?? They are neophytes in the business and our brothers too, let's give them a break for whatever transgressions they commit. 2.. Reality Training and Combat: Popular concept today may not last tomorrow!!! Why the desire for such an activity - for what??? To show/prove that we can fight??? Do most people really care about this??? Not - small followers and a lot of hurt for small money. Fighting is human nature, and we as martial artists certainly can fight better than the average citizen to some extent. If need be fight for our life as the situation dictates. In the contrary, as MA instructors we tell our students to avoid fights. Right?? In context, let's take for example these so-called no-holds bar "cage"competitions. This is not as real a fight yet in our definition. Some countries and states ban them for excessive violence and these so-called fighters only a few of them are around today!!! So why follow??? Again, bottom line - not good for FMA and for the business. I have yet to see an FMA dojo with a full house student attendance. Maybe the reason why TKD is popular cause parents sees their children doing MA (???) in a sport atmosphere rather than watching people practicing the "warrior art", brandishing sharp objects and or choking one out of his breath. Point - Time to maybe tuned down some of our too non-appealing training (Gladiator mentality) approach mildly to cater after all to the business of teaching FMA??? 3.. Balintawak: I'll be talking primarily about Balintawak Cuentada (BC), GM Bobby Taboada system to which I'm a Full Qualified Instructor. The question is this a complete art??? As of recent digest notes,,,no one has yet come out of the definition of the complete MA. Some opinions say that the art must at least cover the combative aspects and internal/spiritual/mental dimensions/many more of MA as well. Oh man,,,,this a huge open field for discussion, opinions, and a journey of a life-time journey that may not end.!!! Since most of our consensus/interest points towards the 'combative' aspects,,,,I would say BC is complete. GM Bobby fondly calls his system boxing/karate/grappling with stick. To include the internal/spiritual/others,,, "No"- we don't have enough time. As it is, some of our students with high rankings from other arts finds our curriculum too much and busy. So, why complicate further, we stay as simplistic and learner- friendly. Too many things confused students as experienced by students in some FMA schools offering about 7 different MA in their curriculum (FMA, Thai boxing, Savate, grappling arts, etc.). 4.. Invitation: Whenever you are in Cincinnati, Ohio give me a holler. I guarantee we won't even discuss FMA but I promised you "filipino good time and fun". Fondly and from my Heart I welcome you all!! Jorge V. Penafiel (513) 729-5232 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:19:32 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Lucky/not crazy not stupid Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky, I left Philippines behinds to get a better job and chances for better life. I am not crazy to kill my self for few bucks. But for me if you touch and hurt my family and me, I have no choice, i will defend my self in any cost. That what the Martial arts I know, if necessary to go to South America, in the expense of my family I will do it. But the question is not that. I also mentioned that I am not Superman that can whole world just simply got lucky to be alive after all the experience I en-counter get it?. What is the point of dragging question, like that is very insulting. That what we called in the Philippines "Nakakalake ka na ha". Becaused you are right there behind your computer is easy for you to say what you said. I am sure if you go to the Philippines, just talk a little and the tone of your voice is like that, I will guarantee you are not going to have hard time to find yourself in deep sh$#. I am speaking only my vision and sharing my experience, well if I able to irritate you, just delete my post, you dont need to drag it all those none sense bull$##t word you used. I am still very much aware that some of the people here on the list like what I shared, now if not, I hope this people just delete the post and ingnor it. Again, no man can beat the worlds, I am not that stupid to claim that. Laging Handa/Always ready, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:32:52 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] complete art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net HI, It is hard to practice everything too. Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 7 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:05:13 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] You drag me in to it Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/18/04 2:18:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > My question was simply in response to the statement that you had never > been beat, assuming that meant in any discipline given the context of > the "complete art" discussion. That was why I asked, as one data point, > what BJJ black belts (or even BJJ purple belts) you had submitted recently > (in the last year or two). > > Now this is not to say that a person that has not submitted a BJJ > purple/black belt isn't a good martial artist or a good FMA instructor or > even a good grappler. Just getting back to my point about how difficult > it is to be great at everything. I still claim it is pretty much > impossible. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom Ray, Well, since you asked me, i told you. If you think that we are not telling the truth, prove it to me that we are liar. Till you find the person can tell you that they beat me, in any fights, then come back and post it to counter that claim. I am not pushing for you and the other to believed that claim. I asm still young and I think, if anyone will attack me I think they will leave me no choice to attack back. If any one will offer to pay me big bucks to fight on win or lose in competition I would difinitely do it. But If I am just going to earn little bucks. I will keep the arts with till someone try to take my life from me. If you cant believed that, sorry, I cant help it. I will tell you this I am a fighter first before I become a teacher but forever will be student. Laging handa/Always ready, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot Baet "Ikaw ang umuukit ng iyong kasaysayan hindi kasaysayan ang uukit sayo na maging ikaw"(You are the one curving your history, history dont curved you as you) by :GM Felipe "Garimot" Baet --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:54:40 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rocky the manager Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky I would like to sign up. I'll HIJACK Ray's WE'VE GOT THAT TOO tm. Then we'll hit the road baby. Phil ===== Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:15:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] 1 million knife throws Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > His interest in knife throwing has influenced him to throw a total > exceeding 1,250,000 (that's one MILLION two hundred and fifty thousand) > throws; write a book on it the subject, and become a well-respected > expert in the field. This sounds very interesting. Title? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest