Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:54:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #117 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. So far I wasn't beaten. (GatPuno@aol.com) 2. RE: completeness (Patrick Davies) 3. Once again (rocky pasiwk) 4. RE: Balintawak - Complete (Mike Casto) 5. pananandata knife throwing (rob mulligan) 6. Guru Abon (rocky pasiwk) 7. Re: So far I wasn't beaten. (Ray Terry) 8. BJJ question (rocky pasiwk) 9. Re: pananandata knife throwing (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Eskrima Self Defense (Buz Grover) 11. Re: You drag me in to it (James Wade) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:05:50 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] So far I wasn't beaten. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry wrote: > My question was simply in response to the statement that you had never > been beat, assuming that meant in any discipline given the context of > the "complete art" discussion. That was why I asked, as one data point, > what BJJ black belts (or even BJJ purple belts) you had submitted recently > (in the last year or two). > > Ray, I forget the answer this question, "So far" I have not experienced of getting beat by any Martial artist if that the question. May be becaused I havent fight all different MA yet. But only thing I would tell you, I am not just going to let them beat the hell of me without a good fights. I also point it out, I was "Undefeated" in unpadded stick fighting (meaning weapon arts) not wrestling matches or ground fighting matches. Where in the world the BJJ came to the picture? I wrestle on the friendly manner, I fought in street fight, with weapon, knife, empty hand, and multiple opponents. I think I did well surviving, is that hard to understand. Do I ever claim that I would never defeated, time only can tell. Not me not even you. As Complete art is concern, I think my senior student Guro Alfredo "Pating" Sardinas clarifies the topic, that "Complete art with him, has weapon, has empty hand, kicking, ground fighting, and no etc. I that not answer your question in "Complete art". As far of we had that too (TM) is concern, I never realized that other MA only study for a certain topic of fighting and concept. I always belived FMA has it all, and I believd on this 101%. I was never exposed nor taught other arts but FMA. My exposure to the other arts is only on TV movies, and experienced it only when I came here to US on 1989. Then I realized that each martial arts focus in certain way of fighting (i.e. kick and punch, ground fighting, and weapon). I always believed that FMA has everything since I was only exposed to this arts. Now I realized that some FMA is like other arts, only deal with some specific fighting arts, some only practice single stick, some incorporates double stick, some incorporates boxing, and some have throws and locks. I think I need to thank my father, he smart enough to study the whole variety of theory in fighting. That is made me claimed, we have that too (TM)? I dont think so. I think, your question is simply fruit of jealous feeling, irritating facts that someone has come forwards to offer of one stop FMA. That's it, you are simply beaten by your ego. Hindi makaintay/Can't wait, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:18:26 -0000 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: completeness Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Ray Terry Just getting back to my point about how difficult it is to be great at everything. I still claim it is pretty much impossible. I can see what you are saying Ray and I can also see why Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet - whom a good acquaintance of mine has visited and speaks highly of - could misinterpret. However I also think this arose from Al Sardinas claim that this art is complete. Given that people have different interpretations of words etc this term is always going to stir up a hornets nest of contention. I haven't seen those words actually used by Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet (could have missed them) so people should keep this in context. I had the good fortune to train next to one of the leading martial artists in the world last week who expressed awe in the techniques taught by another leading martial artist. His art is always evolving and can never claim to be complete because once it is thought as such it will become stuck in time and will not address the next moment. I thought we had moved away from discussions where completeness is used. I use the term 'whole - istic' in that the art encapsulates all the disciplines but still strives for perfection, constantly adding and stripping. I hope I can live to that ideal. Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:05:27 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Once again Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Once again Guru Gat , thinks Iam attacking him, I am truly sorry he feels that way!!!! My post was attacking people who claim to have an absolutely complete art!!!! and are un beatable, I have not heard, Guru Abon, claim to be unbeatable, he obviously is not afraid to defend himself, but I don't see where he thinks I fit him into the group, like I referenced, the guys who can simply touch you and you pass out. if anything since he is so aggressive, towards me I think he would be the first to go and have these people prove it to him!!!! Once again, my post is to those who CLAIM!!! to be unbeatable and have never lost in a fight, if you can do all these things I wanna see it, if I could do it I would rule the martial arts world, wouldn't you???? Actually I thought I was agree with Guru Abon, for a change, something we don't do that often but he keeps taking everything so personally. Sh*t now Top Dog, and Crafty will probably be showing up at my door to kick the crap out of me!!!! You need to lighten up Guru Abon. On another Guru Abon post, once again, he proves what I have been saying for years on this digest, he gets jumped by a bunch of guys, he defends himself, and he still gets into some trouble, proving that the Philippines have rules and laws, just like when GM Bacon, killed someone in self defense, he still did 6 month in jail. So again how could these other masters we have all heard of, wonder the Philippines and kill so many people and never get into any kind of trouble, makes you wonder, don't it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh an Ray, before you show up at my door, with the AARP to kick my Ass, I am sorry, for calling you old. :-) Rocky You know this place you to be a lot of fun!!!! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Balintawak - Complete Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:32:23 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net WRT Bobby Taboada's Balintawak empty hands - unless he's changed them since I saw them in '95/'96, they are distinctly Balintawak in that they use the same motions as the Cuentada drills but, especially when he does them, his boxing background is very evident. I don't know whether he learned the empty hands from the Balintawak or if he added them to his system based on his background in boxing (and maybe Karate but when he did them they had a distinct boxing flavor to them). Mike -----Original Message----- From: rich parsons [mailto:richparsonsjr@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:11 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Balintawak - Complete Guro Abon, It is in the person not the art for completeness. It is true that most if not all of the original techniques for Balintawak were single stick, and it was upto the student to do the translations to the empty hand. So, if someone does not see the translation then it is not there. Some instructors like Bobby Taboada do teach the empty hand now, and others still leave it to the student to apply the motions to empty hand and to knife or what have you. Or at least this has been my perception of my Balintawak Training. With Respect __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:10 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] pananandata knife throwing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That's an easy one Ray, thanks for asking. It's "Pananandata Guide to Knife Throwing" published by United Cutlery. It's most easily available online; where you can find reviews of his knife designs too. Google it, you'll find it. Po wrote the "Pananandata Guide to Sport Blowguns" too. Thanks for letting me put in a free pitch for my teachers books, he'll appreciate it. Rob Mulligan, WWW.KWIKSTIK.COM                         ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:50:44 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Guru Abon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guru Abon Wrote: >I left Philippines behinds to get a better job and chances for better life. I >am not crazy to kill my self for few bucks. But for me if you touch and hurt >my family and me, I have no choice, i will defend my self in any cost I agree, and believe you would do just that, I also believe you would be justified, their are many in this would who do not think so. >What is the point of dragging question, like that is very insulting. That >what we called in the Philippines "Nakakalake ka na ha". Becaused you are >right >there behind your computer is easy for you to say what you said. I am sure if >you go to the Philippines, just talk a little and the tone of your voice is >like that, I will guarantee you are not going to have hard time to find yourself >in deep sh$#. Don't think do the tone you hear must be for your ears only, so far this morning 6 e-mails wondering what your problem with me is, I simply said I think its a misunderstanding, I am on great terms with a number of Filipino GM's, they don't seem to think I have an attitude, in fact they usually like my sense of humor. >am speaking only my vision and sharing my experience, well if I able to >irritate you, just delete my post, you don't need to drag it all those none sense >bull$##t word you used. I am still very much aware that some of the people >here on the list like what I shared, now if not, I hope this people just delete >the post and ingnor it Good for you keep speaking your thoughts, I enjoy some of your stuff! The stuff Don't agree with I just ignore, maybe you should take some of your own advise???? Ignore what you don't like. 2000 people on this digest, and you are the only one that takes anything I say personally, hhhhmmmm flattering, but not necessary. >Again, no man can beat the worlds, I am not that stupid to claim that. Bingo!!!!!!!! Now do me a little favor, go back through all your post, and show me where you did CLAIM you could beat everyone!!!!!!!! Like I said you didn't make those CLAIMS so why worry about it. You simply state that you are willing to test your art, great good for you, it shows you believe in what you do, nothing at all wrong with that. One of the most informed MA's on this digest, when comes to the psychology of street self defense is Marc MacYoung, he has probably forgotten more statistics involving self defense then most of us will ever learn, yet when I say to stay away fro the instructors who just love to spew out statistics about this and that, to try to impress future students, he doesn't get all bent out of shape like you do!!! He know that I am not talking about him, I'am talking about the ones who heard some stat or some catch phrase somewhere and then use it to impress others, even though they really don't understand what the hell they are talking about, which in the long run can put their student into trouble. If I had no respect for you Guru Abon, you'd be the first to know it!!!!!!!! That is why I took the time to ask you the proper title to use when addressing you, other wise I wouldn't give a shit!!!! Now chill out! go hit something you'll feel better or have a beer or two :-) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] So far I wasn't beaten. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:51:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > .. I think, your question is simply fruit of jealous feeling, irritating facts > that someone has come forwards to offer of one stop FMA. That's it, you are > simply beaten by your ego. Ok. That seems to clear things up just fine. Thx. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:55:45 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] BJJ question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For those who have rolled with any of the Gracie people or the Machodo (SP) is their any real differences between their approaches, I have taught some Ukrainian grappling to a former Gracie student, but I have never seen any of the Machodo stuff. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] pananandata knife throwing To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:36:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Po wrote the "Pananandata Guide to Sport Blowguns" too. > > Thanks for letting me put in a free pitch for my teachers books, he'll > appreciate it. Whoops. I see something I need to add to the We Have That, Too (TM) style of MA. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:20:10 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima Self Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is a bit of an amalgam of a couple threads going on right now, but has anyone had experience with the RAD (Rape Aggression Defense) system? I've seen it taught several times at the place where I work out on campus. Pretty spooky stuff, if you ask me. Seemed like it was assumed all rapists would be standing flat footed in a wide stance with arms outstretched, for instance. To my mind the young women in the class would have been a lot better off drilling jab, cross, right kick, run away, for the duration of their training instead of the watered down set stance stuff I saw. The class is taught by campus cops, most of whom I know, I kinda wanted to inject my $.02 into the curriculum, and thought it might be amusing to see what my right Thai kick could do to the RedMan suit guy, and so pulled one of the cops aside and asked what it would take to help with the class. Big Bucks was the short answer. There were formal instructors' classes with levels of instructorship, and a well established curriculum that could not be strayed from. I asked what the qualifications were to take an instructor's class; the ability to respirate and follow the narrow curriculum to the letter seemed the primary quals. What I could glean is that RAD is basically designed to cater to the bureaucratic needs of agencies like Police Departments: sign of $500 purchase order and one of your staff can go out for a weekend and get qualified to battle a Serious Social Problem. Top to bottom, however, the program looks to me like it has more in common with black belt mills than with other, more effective, self-defense or real-world martial arts systems. Though there is a good chance I haven't seen enough of the program to judge it comprehensively, what I have seen leaves me doubting its usefulness. Any one else out there acquainted with RAD? Does someone want to disabuse me of any misconceptions? Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: James Wade Subject: Re: [Eskrima] You drag me in to it To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am in no way a guru, but I think there is a point that my instructor made about a week ago that has still been missed. If you are putting in the time and practice in the FMAs it is in part, I would think, so that you don't have to fight the opponents fight. I don't think this makes an incomplete art just a smarter one. If you are only looking at UFC type fights then the rules allow the grapplers to dominate. Rules of engagement also play a large role in what th Dog Bros. do. In a real confrontation not only would a BJJ guy probably get cut badly or killed but the first heavy stoke taken to the head from a piece of re bar or a 2x4 without the head gear would most definitely end the fight. I guess my point is that the FMAs are weapons based and though the open hand is very important the weapon is the equalizer. I don't mean to imply that the ground work is not important, but before I let my arm be broken I will make a great atempt to put steel to his flesh. GatPuno@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/18/04 2:18:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > My question was simply in response to the statement that you had never > been beat, assuming that meant in any discipline given the context of > the "complete art" discussion. That was why I asked, as one data point, > what BJJ black belts (or even BJJ purple belts) you had submitted recently > (in the last year or two). > > Now this is not to say that a person that has not submitted a BJJ > purple/black belt isn't a good martial artist or a good FMA instructor or > even a good grappler. Just getting back to my point about how difficult > it is to be great at everything. I still claim it is pretty much > impossible. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom Ray, Well, since you asked me, i told you. If you think that we are not telling the truth, prove it to me that we are liar. Till you find the person can tell you that they beat me, in any fights, then come back and post it to counter that claim. I am not pushing for you and the other to believed that claim. I asm still young and I think, if anyone will attack me I think they will leave me no choice to attack back. If any one will offer to pay me big bucks to fight on win or lose in competition I would difinitely do it. But If I am just going to earn little bucks. I will keep the arts with till someone try to take my life from me. If you cant believed that, sorry, I cant help it. I will tell you this I am a fighter first before I become a teacher but forever will be student. Laging handa/Always ready, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot Baet "Ikaw ang umuukit ng iyong kasaysayan hindi kasaysayan ang uukit sayo na maging ikaw"(You are the one curving your history, history dont curved you as you) by :GM Felipe "Garimot" Baet _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest