Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #123 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. self-defense and the art of bouncing (Marc Macyoung) 2. FMA DVD's (Sidney525@aol.com) 3. Schumacher (Pugil) 4. Re: self-defense and the art of bouncing (Ray Terry) 5. Complete Art (steve kohn) 6. Re: Complete Art (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:55:48 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] self-defense and the art of bouncing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Oh yeah, one more thing. IF you claim to teach something other than martial arts (which hey, in and of itself is a mighty fine and worthy endeavor), ask yourself where what you think you are teaching would fit within the bear analogy. M --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:58:50 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA DVD's Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There are a few dvd's out there that may be of interest. Hawk's Vengence with Cass Magda with some good FMA and a little silat is available. Brazilian Brawl starring the Machado brothers with Guro Inosanto having a role for the first 10 minutes or so. There is also a short piece with some FMA knifework. Finally, the Warrior Within, the 70's documentary, is also available on DVD. Just FYI Sid Defensor Method-Chicago --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:07:29 +0000 From: Pugil To: Subject: [Eskrima] Schumacher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Michael Shumacher may be as complete a driver as there is right now." That's a bold statement! Doesn't terrain come into this? If you are talking about Michael Schumacher, then you must mean that he is "...as complete a 'F1' driver...". I heard that he recently drove (or was driven in) a top class Rally Car and he said that he honestly believed that he would never be able to compete at a high level. Conversely, he thought that the Rally Driver (I'm sorry I don't know who he was) would easily be able to compete (with a good car) in F1 - without too much trouble. Here's another perspective: Match a world-class martial artist with a world-class Water Polo player in a fight. On dry land the martial artist should - in theory - win, whereas in 20 feet of water there might very well be a different outcome. If you disbelieve that, go try it. No weapons, just bare-handed stuff. See how you get on. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] self-defense and the art of bouncing To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:21:18 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Do you guys honestly think that you would be able to go from 0 - 120 mph if > you came around a blind corner and had someone try to drive a knife in your > chest? And do it without getting a sucking chest wound? I did it. But at > the time I was deeply immersed in the "Life" so I was always at tac-alert > anyway. Would I be able to do it now that I am older, mellower and more > civilized? I don't know. I kind of doubt it. But that is the hunter > mindset. It ain't no game and you don't let your quarry have the slightest > chance. Accomplished that twice. Could I do it again? I didn't think I could do it once. But my training kicked in and before I realized it... it was all over. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:31:50 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Complete Art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks, Who here doesnt think the notion of a "complete art" is totally ridiculous? Some arts may be closer to being complete than others, but no one art can do it all. If its "complete", that implies that it has an end. If it has an end, it is a system and not an art. No true artist is ever satisfied with his work and always strives to grow within his art. If the so-called "art" is to grow, its founder can never become complacent. If he does, his art dies. Systems catalogue techniques while art grows through conceptual understanding. Art has no end, a technical catalogue does. Best, Steve Kohn >From: "al sardinas" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Complete Art >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:31:58 -0500 > >Ray you wrote: "A problem, of course, with the "complete" art approach is >that it will be >so vast that one would never be able to attain any significant level of >expertise in even a subset of its elements.  Concepts are great, but will >concepts keep you from being submitted by a hooker?  (No, not that kind >  of hooker, Rocky.  :).....  But the problem is again, how does one >continue to practice kicking, empty hands/elbows, standup grappling, ground >grappling, weapons (ALL types), etc, etc (see "We Have That, Too" (TM)) and >be able to roll with a BJJer, flow with an eskrimador, kick with a muay thai >or TKDer, stay inside with a wing chun-er, grapple with a hapkido-er, >etc..... >It is easy to be a jack of all, but difficult to be a master of even one." > >I agree with everything you wrote to a point. Personally, due to age, body >size and other factors I know that I will never to be able to attain a >significant level of expertise in the vast arena of the Garimot System. That >is why I concentrate on mastering the basics. Through these basics I master >the concepts. Through these concepts I develop the mind. And ultimately it >is the mind that will determine how well you succeed regardless of what or >who is the opponent. > >To the question of how one can continue to practice and be able to roll, >flow, kick and grapple, etc. the answer is not many. But I do know of one >person who can do all that and more. He is not a master of one but a master >of many. He is my instructor Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet. His background is >martial arts, his future is martial arts. What he has to offer is available >for everyone to explore now. Times have changed, Guro's arms are open now. >Take advantage. > >Respectfully, >Al Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1800 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:42:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Complete Art From: "Mike Casto" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't like the word "complete" from the get go for the very reasons you state. I think some systems are more well-rounded than others. But that doesn't necessarily make them better. It'd be like saying that a general practitioner is better than a cardiologist because he's more well-rounded - but if your heart's what's giving you problems you'll take the cardiologist every time. I think a fighter needs to be relatively well-rounded. But a system can be very concentrated and focused on one aspect and be completely viable. Personally, I'm glad there are specialized arts. Because while I prefer to be well-rounded, when I want to gain more depth in an area, I seek out a person or system that specializes in that area. Even if I can trash the guy in a fight, he's better in his area than I am so I pay my dues (in whatever form is required), slough my ego, and train to improve that aspect of my overall game. And I think it's natural to specialize. We each have certain aspects of our training that suit us better than other aspects. We will tend to gravitate to these and specialize in them. It takes quite a bit of effort to keep developing our weaker areas while maintaining/improving our stronger areas in an effort to be well-rounded. Personally, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor - but I don't fault people/systems who specialize and I'm glad they're out there to give me pointers when I'm trying to polish up that area of my work. Mike > Hi Folks, > > Who here doesnt think the notion of a "complete art" is totally > ridiculous? Some arts may be closer to being complete than others, but no > one art can do it all. If its "complete", that implies that it has an > end. If it has an end, it is a system and not an art. No true artist is > ever satisfied with his work and always strives to grow within his art. > If the so-called "art" is to grow, its founder can never become > complacent. If he does, his art dies. Systems catalogue techniques while > art grows through conceptual understanding. Art has no end, a technical > catalogue does. > > Best, > > Steve Kohn > >>From: "al sardinas" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >>Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Complete Art >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:31:58 > -0500 > >Ray you wrote: "A problem, of course, with the "complete" art > approach is >that it will be >so vast that one would never be able to > attain any significant level of >expertise in even a subset of its > elements.  Concepts are great, but will >concepts keep you from being > submitted by a hooker?  (No, not that kind >  of hooker, > Rocky.  :).....  But the problem is again, how does one >continue to > practice kicking, empty hands/elbows, standup grappling, ground >>grappling, weapons (ALL types), etc, etc (see "We Have That, Too" (TM)) > and >be able to roll with a BJJer, flow with an eskrimador, kick with a > muay thai >or TKDer, stay inside with a wing chun-er, grapple with a > hapkido-er, >etc..... >It is easy to be a jack of all, but difficult to > be a master of even one." > >I agree with everything you wrote to a > point. Personally, due to age, body >size and other factors I know that I > will never to be able to attain a >significant level of expertise in the > vast arena of the Garimot System. That >is why I concentrate on mastering > the basics. Through these basics I master >the concepts. Through these > concepts I develop the mind. And ultimately it >is the mind that will > determine how well you succeed regardless of what or >who is the > opponent. > >To the question of how one can continue to practice and be > able to roll, >flow, kick and grapple, etc. the answer is not many. But I > do know of one >person who can do all that and more. He is not a master > of one but a master >of many. He is my instructor Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" > Baet. His background is >martial arts, his future is martial arts. What > he has to offer is available >for everyone to explore now. Times have > changed, Guro's arms are open now. >Take advantage. > >Respectfully, >Al > Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis >>_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing > list,  1800 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright > 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers > apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet > access. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest