Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #127 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: You Know It's Been a Good Class When (Young Forest) 2. re: complete system (excalibur921@ctnet.net) 3. Re: Self defense situations (Johnaleen) 4. Re: re: complete system (Ray Terry) 5. Harvard (Ric Gardea) 6. RE: The Flow (Danny Anderson) 7. Re: Self-defence (Todd Ellner) 8. RE: PCC vs. Harvard (Ernest Westbrook) 9. Roan Kalani Grimm's Complete Education (jay de leon) 10. Re: flow again (Ray Terry) 11. "Complete" arts, unbeatable instructors, and we-have-that-too styles.... (jose saguisabal) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:33:46 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: You Know It's Been a Good Class When Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >I've spent time after class, last night and periodically during the day >today, practicing that drawing and opening drill..... The knife draw is a commonly overlooked skill - people forget they have to get that knife into their hand first. Case in point: I was involved with a demonstration a couple of years ago. One group was called in at the last minute to do an FMA demo. In the demonstrators' defence, they probably had less than 8 hours notice that they'd be involved. Anyway, backstage they were doing good, solid work with stick, machete and knife. Onstage, however, things went pear-shaped in a hurry. Whereas backstage they just changed weapons by reaching over and picking up the implement off a bench, during their demo one partner was supposed to draw an aluminum training knife from his waistband. Unfortunately, he didn't first clear his t-shirt which concealed the knife. He pulled and pulled and pulled, with the entangled shirt keeping him from drawing the knife free from his pants. I'm sure it felt like an hour for the guy, but in reality it took probably under 10 seconds before it came free. Meanwhile, his opponent is standing there with nothing to do but 'look ready' to defend himself against the soon-to-be-born knife attack. The upshot: practice drawing your knife in all positions, standing, sitting, lying down. Practice it with your shirt tucked in, or loose, or with a jacket in the way. Practice preventing the other guy from drawing his knife. Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:16:36 -0600 From: excalibur921@ctnet.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: complete system Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, If anyone would be interested there is a group on yahoo, or I should say the moderator, who seems very confident his art and the way he presents it is as complete and perfect as it gets. The group name is Cabales Serrada Escrima Martial Truth or CSMET. I myself am an instructor of Cabales Serrada Escrima, a practitioner since 1992, and a practitioner of the FMA since 1986. As well as being arrogant to wards fellow CSE enthusiasts. he has attempted to disparage anyone who has not recieved instruction from the present GM Vincent Cabales. Much like the incidents following Ed Parker Sensei's death, similar feuding seems to be apparent within the CSE community. Just thought if anyone might like to take the "complete system" discussion to truly another level, this would be a great place to start. Peace respects to all pangisang guro mike --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Johnaleen" To: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:30:52 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Self defense situations Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Todd wrote: As I said, different situations call for different approaches. One size really doesn't fit all. hmmmm i dont know, get the hell out size fits me fairly well, and its the only approach to self defense that should be taken, or its no longer self defense. furthermore its what i have been teaching for over 20+ years. getting out as fast as you can is the main goal and the only approach needed to understand self defense. just save your life and to do so as fast as possible, that's with avoidance being first and if your there anyway get the hell out fast. Staying around and duking it out until someone is out cold and brutally beaten or cutting someone 26 times before you leave is not getting out to save your life but exacting revenge for someone messing with you in the frist place. And in the end, that's ego.... and in the end Ego Kills.... Ms. J.... --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: complete system To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:37:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The group name is Cabales Serrada Escrima Martial Truth or > CSMET. > I myself am an instructor of Cabales Serrada Escrima, a practitioner > since 1992, and a practitioner of the FMA since 1986. > As well as being arrogant to wards fellow CSE enthusiasts. > he has attempted to disparage anyone who has not recieved > instruction from the present GM Vincent Cabales. Grandmaster Vincent is a fine fellow. I seriously doubt he would condone such behavior on the part of any of his CSE students. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Ric Gardea" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Harvard Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That is a bold statement to say that Garimot is the Harvard of FMA, where do the DB's fall? Maybe Oxford? What about Illustrisimo, a Yale perhaps? The other's, Parker Community College? SEAMA, as I like to call South East Asian Martial Arts have it all. But the real excitement is in the investigation of these and finding out who you really are in the process. For lack of other words the "sharpening of the blade or soul." Can you let it rest now, please? Go polish the blade some more. "Manu" Ric Gardea _________________________________________________________________ Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms – all in one place at MSN Money! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:08:48 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: The Flow Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Hey Y'all, I don't want to open a can of worms again, but I just wanted to show you a great example of "flow". Notice the ambidexterity and simultaneous use of hands and feet. It doesn't get any better. http://www.kalieskrima.com/noflow.mpeg See you in the sticks, Dale" Dale, I have something to strive for again. Thank you for giving my life new meaning (lol). Yours, Dan Anderson _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Todd Ellner To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:12:16 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Self-defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It seems that Ollie and I are in serious agreement here. It's just, as usual, a matter of clarification - making sure that we're really on the same page. Frightening as it sounds I've met self defense teachers who say "Don't resist or run until you're absolutely sure. The most important thing is to memorize all the details so that you can give a good description to the police." If I've ever heard a recipe for freezing it's right there. The worst was an Administration of Justice Professor who had been a cop for years and said "If you are ever in the hands of a serial killer don't resist. It will just make him angrier." After the class picked its jaws up off the floor someone a little faster on the uptake than me said "What's he going to do? Kill you twice?" The point about the most danger being from acquaintances is a good one for men and women. According to the people who keep track of such things at the NIJ most homicide victims are killed by people they knew previously. Likewise most people on the receiving end of aggravated assault and a surprisingly large fraction of those who get robbed. Of course, that includes a lot of criminals killing other criminals (why can't they just sue each other like we G-d fearing taxpayers do? :) Another big chunk is people (mostly women) who are killed by spouses or partners in cases where the police have already been called in the previous year. I note that a court in Scotland recently sentenced a man to eight years in prison for manslaughter. Four guys came around to his house, at least one armed with a gun, and broke in. He met them at the door with a "samurai sword" and cut one who ran away and later bled out. The others have been charged with burglary and firearms offenses. Christ on a pogo stick. How crazy can the British courts get? Why weren't the other goblins up on the equivalent of felony murder charges? --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Ernest Westbrook" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:26:42 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: PCC vs. Harvard Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Roan Grimm, wrote: >I'm not debating whether or not the Garimot system is complete or not, I have absolutely ZERO >experience with it, but reading the above analogy caused me to think of something.  While it's >true that a Harvard student will rarely need to go to "Parker CC" to learn an advanced subject >like high energy particle physics, said student will likely be turning over their car to a graduate of >PCC for repairs in a garage because Harvard, MIT, etc. rarely offer such real world subjects as >"Auto Maintenance 101".  However, CCs usually do offer such real world subjects, and usually do >a damn fine job of turning out excellent mechanics, electricians, refrigeration/AC techs, welders, >etc.  So along the lines of YOUR analogy, Harvard DOES NOT offer a COMPLETE education.  It >excels in teaching certain subjects while other subjects are missing. > >As with all my "thinking out loud", I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to get everyone's >thinking juices flowing.  Peace, respect and an open mind.  In response to Al Sardinas' post which I deleted to save space and I would like to hitch hike on his comments.  Another function of the CC is give students an opportunity re-evaluate their options and interests at a smaller. more cost effective college enviroment.  The CC provides some "breathing space" and a couple of additional years to mature.  35 years ago, I was one of those students.  The Harvard, Yale, MIT level was way out of my league and eveen the state colleges were a step or two above my readiness but the CC gave me an chance to grow into a career path and find what I wanted to do.  It worked well for me.   The complete art vs. complete system is a lot like the CC vs. the university.  We all had to start somewhere with an instructor.  How far we can or will go is dependent on our needs and our personal ambitions within the arts.  Some people are quite content to learn one style and stay within one system regardless of the real or imagined limitations.  Others will branch out and find new styles and different instructors.  EBrook THE Wicked Western Warlock ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:43:29 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Roan Kalani Grimm's Complete Education Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Roan Kalani Grimm wrote "...Harvard DOES NOT offer a COMPLETE education...just trying to get everyone's thinking juices flowing." Okay, you've succeeded in the second phrase with me. I agree with your first phrase, but for a different reason. The starting premise is that one may argue anything based on definition. My definition of education is "fitting man for living." While going to college may arguably comprise the bulk of your education, it will not complete your education. In addition to Auto Maintenance 101, (assuming this is not in your college curriculum), you may have to learn, say, parenting skills, financial literacy, catechism, public speaking, self-defense, how to be a better lover, how to grow a better rose bush, etc., etc. Hey, I guess that puts us (MA teachers) in the education business--fitting men (and women) for living (surviving). Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] flow again To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:21:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I don't want to open a can of worms again, but I just wanted to show you a > great example of "flow". Notice the ambidexterity and simultaneous use of > hands and feet. It doesn't get any better. > > http://www.kalieskrima.com/noflow.mpeg Shocking... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:22:11 -0800 From: "jose saguisabal" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] "Complete" arts, unbeatable instructors, and we-have-that-too styles.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I know it's a little late, but... What others may perceive as arrogance or boasting, through a Filipino guro, it is a sign of confidence. Challenges and rivalries are very common, and because of them, FMA experts have to stay on their toes. One reason you don't see many McDojos (and trust me, there are some) in the Philippines is because of the commonality of masters and fighters that will size you up. As often as matches and challenges occur, I doubt that you will see a Filipino master who is not willing to (or for that matter, cannot) back up his talk. Keep in mind, that the attitude that my style is superior to all others, is what makes our arts so strong; the founders and teachers of the arts test them and forge them into functional arts they have used themselves. The main reason many Filipino teachers boast and walk with their heads up is that they CAN back up what they say, and have done it many times. Everyone here has studied with a Filipino teacher at some point--have you ever met one that was not will ing to spar? I doubt it. The Eastern stereotype of a passive, humble man does not fit the Filipino model of a martial arts expert. My advice, if you meet a Filipino FMA teacher who thinks he is unbeatable, and he's willing to prove it, get out your wallet, because you will definitely learn something from him. I am reminded of the general FMA community's treatment of an FMA teacher very close to me.... As far as "complete" arts, FMA teachers may consider their arts complete when they know their style can hold its own against grapplers, boxers, stickfighters, and knifefighters; whether or not those arts have all those techniques. If you can use your Arnis against a boxer, TKD Black Belt, etc., who are we to say his art isn't complete??? Then there are styles that have some grappling, kicking and weapons. If you pardon my rudeness, but in the FMAs we have a way for you to question the completeness of a style: you test it and prove it yourself. I have seen some stickfighters you would not want to meet in a dark alley, even if you had friends with you. Go up against some of these guys, and tell them to their face they need jujitsu.... Re "whtt" styles: So what? No one can claim ownership of any techniques. Perhaps the master saw the technique years ago, and now he can use it as if he'd done it all his life. The bottom line is, how effective is his style and his skills. Remember the saying that effectiveness in combat cannot be argued or discussed, only proven. If you run into someone who claims to be all that and a slice of cheese, he just might. But you won't know until you test it... With all due respect, Jay ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest