Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:37:04 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #129 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sword incident in England (randy at SPiNInternetMedia.com) 2. Sadiq Kuntao Arnis (Kamau Njia) 3. rolling with black belts (gordon walker) 4. Re: Blaise Loong > Ray's Review (Ray Terry) 5. Good post and Challenges (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. Shumi and BAR? (Q) 7. RE: Thank You All (steve kohn) 8. RE: Good post and Challenges (George Storm) 9. Ray you missed it...Animal/Crafty can you confir? (Q) 10. Re: Ray you missed it...Animal/Crafty can you confir? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:32:25 -0800 (PST) From: "randy at SPiNInternetMedia.com" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sword incident in England To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Can anyone supply a URL to an news article regarding this story? ; ) --- Marc Macyoung wrote: > Todd said > >I note that a court in Scotland recently sentenced a man to eight > years > in prison for manslaughter. Four guys came around to his house, at > least > one armed with a gun, and broke in. He met them at the door with a > "samurai sword" and cut one who ran away and later bled out. The > others > have been charged with burglary and firearms offenses. Christ on a > pogo > stick. How crazy can the British courts get? Why weren't the other > >goblins up on the equivalent of felony murder charges? > > Having friends in England/Scotland and Wales there are a couple of > points > that are somehow getting lost in the translation of this story. This > according to the Bolton Evening News > > 1) the so-called swordsman was a drug dealer. This was a standover > robbery. > (criminals robbing criminals) > 2) many of the wounds were in the back of the deceased > 3) it is unclear how long they were in the apartment, but they had at > least > searched him. Which means the attack wasn't immediate apparently > neither was > the threat. > 4) the "gang" got away with 200 pound > 5) the stabbing occurred in the hallway as they fled. > 4) the remaining members of the group were also sentenced for armed > robbery > > This is why it is important to always read several versions of a > story and > get as much information from different points of view before making > something a rallying cry. > > M > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:47:21 -0800 (PST) From: Kamau Njia To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Sadiq Kuntao Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sadiq Kuntao Arnis Workshop Location: Progressive Martial Arts 304-B Mecca Lafayette, LA Guest Instructor: Professor Darrell Sarjeant, Sr. Guro Sadiq Kuntao Arnis Indigenous Boxing I will be instructing in the single stick, knife, Indigenous Boxing & Grappling of Sadiq Kuntao Arnis of which he is the Chief Instructor. All Schools, Styles, Ranks Welcome! For further information, please contact Aprendis Whitney Alfred, Silent Warrior of Louisiana mufasaarnis@bellsouth.net or (337) 739-0455 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:40:55 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] rolling with black belts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I saw a 280 pound bjj black belt at our school. He is an excellent grappler. While he is big, he doesnt beat people with his size. He uses skill. One comment I heard regarding fighting somebody like him was "Thats when you pull out your knife!!" Id probably run and hope I was the quicker one. Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise Loong > Ray's Review To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:57:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Thanks again Ray for taking the time to review Blaise Loong's DVDs. We, of >course, were extremely disappointed and taken aback with your review. It seems >like you just didn't know what to look for as much of what you complained >about was right in front of you. Perhaps it was due to the fact that you seem >to have more of a "Karate" type background. Ouch!!! Wow, you sure know how to hurt a guy. :) Sorry we were unable to provide a more positive review of the material presented on those five dvds. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:30:44 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Good post and Challenges Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay de Leon and Joe Saguisabal, Kababayan very good post. You guys raised a good point to the FMA challenges thread and Filipino instructors. I witness countless time, that my father is being challenges by other Masters of different martial arts, Grandmaster of Arnis, and streetfighter. In my home town "Paete" Laguna in the Philippines has not even one School of Karate, Tae Kwondo, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu for simple reason, No student want to sign up. The parents challenge the instructors who ever wanted to open a school of karate Paete. All of the karate and other MA instructors was told to fight GM Peping "Garimot" Baet in order for them to put their kids, or even them to see if they bit up Peping Garaymot. GM Peping Garaymot was challenge, by a 4rth degree BB in Gonzales Shorinyu Karate from Binan, Laguna. I witness the fight, and my dad used only a glass of water to the Karate man and "Mag-asawang sampal" (Couple of Slap), the fight is over, the Karate man is down. then my dad has to used the glass of water to wake him up (this happen on Sept, 1974 Bo. San Antonio, Binan Laguna.) The other one that I witness is the Boxer Kid Mamory, of Lumban, Laguna (June, 1978) Lumban town Fiesta, Peping Garymnot was challenge by Boxer to fight him in the Arena during the Stick fighting Tournament of Lumban. My dad accept the challenge and he only used a slap attack to his ear and the boxer was down knock out in the first round. He wake and beg my dad to learn Arnis from him, my father never give him a chance to learn the secret of our family, because he is not gentleman enough to grant such opportunity. I can go-on and on but the point is if the Filipino is being challenge, we don't take that just a words, we took that with whole hearted, deeply personal. We are sometimes are blinds with our principles and pride. Which is good and bad, good, because we walk the talk, bad because most of the time we got into deep trouble and sometimes result of being thrown to jail? But hey I guess to the Filipino, the principle is bigger than anything. Specially if someone step on your feet, and your don't even acknowledge your sorry, this clear "Kabastusan" (Rude) meaning "Nakakalake na yun" (Being Bullies). This will lead to a brawl fight, for almost no reason just simple principles. get it? That is the Filipino I know. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International World Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:18:19 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Shumi and BAR? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pugil wrote: "Michael Shumacher may be as complete a driver as there is right now." That's a bold statement! Doesn't terrain come into this? If you are talking about Michael Schumacher, then you must mean that he is "...as complete a 'F1' driver...". Here's another perspective: Match a world-class martial artist with a world-class Water Polo player in a fight. On dry land the martial artist should - in theory - win, whereas in 20 feet of water there might very well be a different outcome. If you disbelieve that, go try it. No weapons, just bare-handed stuff. See how you get on. Pugil, You must be a BAR fan? My post was to make a point . If I qualified all my statemtns with escape clauses R Terry would kill me for the bandwidth. Anyway, To the environment and conditions as Homer would say. "Doh" Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. FORZA FERRARI! Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 270-918-6873fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Thank You All Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:41:44 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > when you wrote ""Who here doesnt think >the notion of a "complete art" is totally ridiculous?" it implies that you >are a man of great wisdom because you know what every member thinks.   Al, Thats quite a conclusion you came to. How does asking what members think imply that I know what every member thinks? Youre a funny guy Al. Since you have so many issues with so many people, did you ever ask yourself..."maybe its me?"   -Steve Kohn >From: "al sardinas" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [Eskrima] Thank You All >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:44:37 -0500 > >Dr. Fung, >Some good comments in your last email. I particularily agree with "IMHO, if >the art is really good at some point in time >the art will lead you to challenge its limits and explore." That is what I >have been trying to do over the last couple of years >You also wrote: "No one art/man's teaching can make you complete." Again, I >agree with you 100 %. In all my writings I never wrote that the art I study >will make me or any other martial artist complete. > >Anthony C, >Good email worth repeating - "One point worth noting is that an individual >will most likely find a "comprehensive" art more readily than a "complete" >one as this implies two totally different things.  The most important point >though is that what might be a "comprehensive" defensive art to one person >might not be complete to another for everyone's needs vary.  So one must >analyze one's needs or those of anyone we are helping before selecting the >necessary art(s) and equipment for self defense." > >Using the point Anthony made, I thought I made it clear that the art "for >me" was complete > >Steve, >You wrote "Do I have less wisdom than you because our opinions differ?" My >answer is I really don't know. But when you wrote ""Who here doesnt think >the notion of a "complete art" is totally ridiculous?" it implies that you >are a man of great wisdom because you know what every member thinks. Also >you wrote "Are you looking for a discussion or advertising time?" I'm with >you, I'm looking for discussion. Unfortunately, everytime I was drawn back >into the discussion I was using my system as the example and this could >easily be perceived as a commercial. > >Dan Anderson, >You wrote "I think as long as a system includes the different types of fight >scenarios, it can offer to be a complete system. As to the "best 'complete >system,'" hoo boy, that is certainly one for contention.  Obviously, the >more experienced the instructor, the greater number of scenarios that >instructor can present.  After that, it is mostly opinion based and better >left to hypotheticals than actual fact." > >Thanks Dan for your perspective. It's good to read a view that is similar if >not equal to one's own. > >John Fontanilla, >Thank you very much for your public support.Unfortunately, in the future I >recommend you make your support known in private. No sense in having two >people burned at the stake. Thanks again!! > >Ray, >You wrote "You are simply digging yourself into a deeper hole." You could be >right, I could be using a shovel to dig myself a deep hole. But like the >words in a song titled "Living Life Upside Down" I could be using all that >dirt I'm displacing to build myself a mountain. But to appease the masses I >will go along with a simple difference of opinion. BTW Ray , in your email >"Re: Letter from Mr. Blaise Loong" , you wrote "Just for completeness I also >asked two other FMAists to review >a subset of them so that we could compare and contrast views". Based on my >recent experience, you have to be careful when you use the word >completeness. LOL. > >Ollie Batts/Pugil you wrote "The best form of self-defence is not to be >there! It's not 'about fighting'... it's about 'not fighting', by which I >mean not >being in a position where you need or have to." I'm going to follow your >advice and let the subject rest even if others do not. Time to regenerate. > >Respectfully, >Al Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis (also a student of Henrick Ibsen) >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1800 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "George Storm" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Good post and Challenges Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:53:40 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Kababayan very good post. You guys raised a good point to the FMA >challenges >thread and Filipino instructors. > >I witness countless time, that my father is being challenges by other >Masters >of different martial arts, Grandmaster of Arnis, and streetfighter. In my >home town "Paete" Laguna in the Philippines has not even one School of >Karate, >Tae Kwondo, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu for simple reason, No student want to >sign >up. http://www.paete.org/abtpaete/ Isn't Paete a very small town? <><><><> George S. _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:46:08 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ray you missed it...Animal/Crafty can you confir? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: After receiving the above letter from Mr. Loong I was really looking forward to watching the dvds. Even tho I was headed out of town to a seminar I immediately sat down to watch a few of the videos as soon as they arrived. I was honestly excited, expecting to see some excellent FMA. Unfortunately that was not the case. But I was a bit disappointed at the quality of eskrima I witnessed. I expected to see crisp footwork, good use and placement of the live hand, as well as good body mechanics, movement, basic motion and flow. IMHO all these elements could have been better demonstrated. Live/sharp steel was used and I believe that actually detracted from some of the videos. Because sharp (and heavy?) bolos were in use it was rather obvious that safety was a prime issue, just as it should be. However, as a result, the bolos were employed in a rather stilted fashion. Just as you do when you're afraid of making contact with your partner. Using real steel is fine, we actually enjoy it (a little). But when making a video it seems to this viewer that one should demonstrate proper body mechanics, especially in basic weapon handling and movement. To get around this problem I recommend using training blades for at least portions of the video production so that exceptional blade handling is shown. As previously mentioned the videos were also viewed by two others. I wanted to see if I was just missing something... They had very similar concerns. The good part... Mr. Loong clearly has a ton of potential. I know from personal experience that it is not easy to make a good video. I Ray, First let me say I am not affiliated with Blaise Loong. I was once in his inner circle about 15 years ago when I lived and trained in Huntington Beach. I have not seen the man in at least that long. But the record should be set straight. Balise Loong is one of the very few people I have seen in 30 years who can do what they say. He can teach it and he can put it into motion. Dispite his modesty he has teaching certifications from all kinds of instructors and is respected by those instructors for his fighting skill. HE is a tricky sucker and I have had bruises and bloody noses to prove it. Your praise of his potential is an understatement. I have seen those DVD's. Those are a for public consumption set of DVD's. SiGung Lee said he thought a punch was this way and that way. Later he said a punch was just a punch. Then a punch became this way and that way again (or something to that effect). You see We start with basics then get really complicated. Then when the real fighting begins we go back to basics. That is what keeps your bacon from getting fried. Ask the Animal he will tell you. When the chips are down it is not the fancy stuff it is the basic footwork, basic, entry and basic weapon strokes that win. I don't think you were disappointed with the "quality of the escrima"as much as you wanted to see some cool stuff. Well I'm sorry to say Ray but the really cool stuff is the basic stuff that you can really use when you need it. Do you remember that stilted stutter step from Cabales Serrada. I use that for a frame of referrence. It is a basic step we all learn. To me all it does is remind me to move. O.K. there is a better way to accomplish that. There is a transitional zone with that studder step where I am unweighted where my oponant can capitalize. And to boot I telegraph it with that noisy step. Do you know what I am talking about? You know what I mean like that classic roofblock with studder step drop that everyone does. Try putting soap on your shower floor then doing that Serada stutter step and then use one from the Blaise video. Can you feel a difference? Those are the basics that will save you. You need to think about things like slippery bloody floors Blaise's footwork addressed that but he did not say it. Again a basic DVD for public consumption to get you thinking about just moving. How about the basic of preserving your blade? That is one reason to train the live blade. Did you notice how he backhanded and used the flat of his blade to block and parry? That was another simple often overlooked issue. I see people all the time with edged weapon training meeting edge to edge. It don't work and at best you destroy your edge. At worse you embed your edge and make for an easy disarm. And what was with that very simple "cob-cob" drill? Well...it works in combat but too many people limp wrist it and arm swing it. They have no idea how to put their body in it to hit hard. Blaise's body position shows you how to do it. Ask Crafty Dog about hitting hard. He will tell you everyone can swing a stick but very few can do it with telling power and authority. Do you remember about a year ago when we talked about this issue and I said I have only been hit "really hard" once or twice in 30 years and started a whole firestorm?...lets not go there. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 270-918-6873fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ray you missed it...Animal/Crafty can you confir? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:17:13 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... When the chips are down it is > not the fancy stuff it is the basic footwork, basic, entry and basic weapon > strokes that win. Correct. The basics were not all that well executed or presented. > I don't think you were disappointed with the "quality of > the escrima"as much as you wanted to see some cool stuff. So now the stickfighting dentist is also a mind reader? :) Sorry, your long distance mind reading needs a lot more work. > live blade. Did you notice how he backhanded and used the flat of his blade > to block and parry? That was another simple often overlooked issue. I see > people all the time with edged weapon training meeting edge to edge. Ture... one of the things learned early on by Serrada students. Folks... Never did I say that Mr. Loong wasn't a good fighter or a good person or a good eskrimador. I was simply asked (note that I was asked, not that I asked) to view and review some dvds... and that occurred. Had I been sent different dvds or worked with Mr. Loong in person or ??? the results may have been very different. If you're interested in reading more about Mr. Loong go to: http://www.blayshalla.com/Blaise/loong/loong.htm Now let it go. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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