Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:03:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #134 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Just Wondering!!! (Jorge Penafiel) 2. Re: Just Wondering!!! (Steve Ames) 3. Re: Just Wondering!!! (Mike Casto) 4. Re: Folders - CRKT (ulfhead@integrity.com) 5. Re: Folders! (steven ledwith) 6. "the martial arts are worthless" (steven ledwith) 7. Re: Re: Folders - CRKT (Ray Terry) 8. RE: Edge video (WoodyTX) 9. Re: "the martial arts are worthless" (Ray Terry) 10. Re: "the martial arts are worthless" (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:20:52 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Just Wondering!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings All !! A change of topics so to speak !! Regards in particular to number of students in my FMA class showing the demographics, as well as, to the numerous seminars and tournaments I have attended. Hopefully your own case is lots better but which "I assumed" has a similar outlook or case scenario. If not my advance apologies!!! Looking at the table below, it showed clearly what are evident. FMA schools/seminars/tournaments attracts mostly Young men who are cross MA trainees, and that the most profound point showed was there is none or negligible attraction to Women and Older People. Why the less interest from two of the biggest groups of people in our population and who also happened to be the most victims of crimes??? We all have the consensus that FMA offers diversified MA training which are beneficial to say the "Self-Defense" criteria among other things. So,why this scenarios?? Now, let's compare it to a Cardio-Kick boxing class or other latest fads in MA. We see the opposite, lots of women compared to men and more older people are seen present.. The class teach them maybe 3-4 kinds of kicks, 2-3 hand techniques, kick the bags a little, few stretches, couple push-ups or set-ups, and with lots of dancing. Yet what is upsetting to us MA Instructors was when asked,,,,these women would say the class made them confident, strong, and prepared to protect themselves.Whoaaa!!! The jest of all of the above points is this - "Are these people telling us that MA needs just to be simpler and that we MA people are over selling our Art in general and that these groups of people care less for what we have to offer them or anybody ???.."Maybe time to reflect and assist/listen to what our customers (students) needs instead of us telling them what they need. Which is better criteria for a successful Dojo - Training 200 students with few over achievers using single art with little cross training to their liking and personal needs versus having a 15-20 students class using 5-8 types of hard core MA training producing 2-4 champions??. That's all for now - points and counter points would be good and welcome. Just wondering!!! Jorge V. Penafiel I. My FMA Class Average No. Sudents 20-35 yrs old Above 35 yrs. MA Background 20 15 men/2 women (wives of students) 2 men/ 1 woman 16- MA cross trainees/4 no MA II. FMA Tournament 25-30 participants (not a big turn out compared to other MA Tournaments) 97% male 3% female III. FMA seminar 35 -50 students (mixed age group mostly MA cross trainees with 3-5 female) --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:22:50 -0500 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Just Wondering!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sat, Mar 27, 2004 at 02:20:52PM -0500, Jorge Penafiel wrote: > > The jest of all of the above points is this - "Are these people telling > us that MA needs just to be simpler and that we MA people are over selling our > Art in general and that these groups of people care less for what we have to > offer them or anybody ???.."Maybe time to reflect and assist/listen to what > our customers (students) needs instead of us telling them what they need. > Which is better criteria for a successful Dojo - Training 200 students with > few over achievers using single art with little cross training to their liking > and personal needs versus having a 15-20 students class using 5-8 types of > hard core MA training producing 2-4 champions??. I'm thinking the answer revolves around perceived violence. Young men like "hard" arts that are agressive and "dangerous". Other groups may want the exercise and self defense aspects but are less enthralled with having to take a few beatings to learn it properly. Social elements are similar. Its normal for women to do aerobics or self defense classes. Once something is packaged as acceptable it gets a larger following. More women came into my TKD club during the TaeBo craze. We added a "kick fit" class which had a high female turnout and a percentage of them moved over to the regular class. A smaller percentage show up for sparring. I heard several months ago of "Eskri-bo" which is a stick based fitness system. Just searched the net briefly and couldn't find any direct mention. Did find: http://www.thejournalnews.com/mindbody/july03/fitness.html Packaging and perception. That'd be my answer. -Steve --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Just Wondering!!! Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In my experience, I've seen a lot of people - not just women and older folks, a lot of men, too - who are really just interested in a workout and, regardless of what they may say to the contrary, aren't really interested in doing what it takes to really become proficient enough to really be able to defend themselves. They want to take a pill or drink a potion and, bam, become Bruce Lee. When they realize that it takes hard work, dedication, and some pain, they shy away. They end up in something like Cardio Kickboxing that gives them a good cardio workout and then they prefer to delude themselves into thinking that they're getting the "self-defense" training that they claim to want. They voluntarily put blinders on. Then, if they get attacked, they often turn to the attitude of, "martial arts are worthless, I'm not wasting my money on anymore of that bunk." Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 2:20 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Just Wondering!!! > Greetings All !! > > A change of topics so to speak !! Regards in particular to number of > students in my FMA class showing the demographics, as well as, to the numerous > seminars and tournaments I have attended. Hopefully your own case is lots > better but which "I assumed" has a similar outlook or case scenario. If not > my advance apologies!!! Looking at the table below, it showed clearly what > are evident. FMA schools/seminars/tournaments attracts mostly Young men who > are cross MA trainees, and that the most profound point showed was there is > none or negligible attraction to Women and Older People. Why the less interest > from two of the biggest groups of people in our population and who also > happened to be the most victims of crimes??? We all have the consensus that > FMA offers diversified MA training which are beneficial to say the > "Self-Defense" criteria among other things. So,why this scenarios?? > > Now, let's compare it to a Cardio-Kick boxing class or other latest fads > in MA. We see the opposite, lots of women compared to men and more older > people are seen present.. The class teach them maybe 3-4 kinds of kicks, 2-3 > hand techniques, kick the bags a little, few stretches, couple push-ups or > set-ups, and with lots of dancing. Yet what is upsetting to us MA Instructors > was when asked,,,,these women would say the class made them confident, strong, > and prepared to protect themselves.Whoaaa!!! > > The jest of all of the above points is this - "Are these people telling > us that MA needs just to be simpler and that we MA people are over selling our > Art in general and that these groups of people care less for what we have to > offer them or anybody ???.."Maybe time to reflect and assist/listen to what > our customers (students) needs instead of us telling them what they need. > Which is better criteria for a successful Dojo - Training 200 students with > few over achievers using single art with little cross training to their liking > and personal needs versus having a 15-20 students class using 5-8 types of > hard core MA training producing 2-4 champions??. > > That's all for now - points and counter points would be good and > welcome. > > Just wondering!!! > > Jorge V. Penafiel > > > > I. My FMA Class > > Average No. Sudents > 20-35 yrs old > Above 35 yrs. > MA Background > > 20 > 15 men/2 women (wives of students) > 2 men/ 1 woman > 16- MA cross trainees/4 no MA > > II. FMA Tournament > 25-30 participants (not a big turn out compared to other MA Tournaments) > > 97% male > > 3% female > > III. FMA seminar > 35 -50 students (mixed age group mostly MA cross trainees with 3-5 > female) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:57:28 -0600 (CST) From: ulfhead@integrity.com Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Folders - CRKT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've ordered the CRKT Ryan 7. It claims to be a functional "fixed blade" once the lock has been engaged. I also liked the seemingly deep finger grove and ambidextrous style handle. It is supposed to be based on the barong style blade. Does anyone have feedback on this knife? I got it for a whopping $19.00 so I figure I would take a chance. If I like it I will make a custom Hi-Tek plastic trainer for it for training. Thanks again for all the help. I heard some great ideas. - Tyrkon - --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Folders! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Another bit of info on liner locks, try to get a folder with a titanium lock. Titanium tends to "gall" or stick to other metals and makes for a very secure lock and thats why you see a lot line locks now using it , no because it's exotic. --- Ray Terry wrote: > > 1) Folders > Thanks for all the feedback. I love > it. I do a lot of impact > > type training with my fixed blade knives so I > agree with you guys who advise > > one to do the same with folders. I will check out > all the resources you guys > > supplied. Ultimately I will just have to start > picking them up. My main > > concern is not how to find a knife that feels good > as I know what I like. My > > concern was primarily with the locking systems on > folders. I have heard some > > horror stories of folders folding up on someone’s > hand and... > > Having a folder's lock fail on you is obviously... > well, no need to > go further. > > My hand seems to be shaped so I am able to 'white > knuckle' some types > of lock-back folders like Spyderco's Endura and > Delica. A good liner > lock will be difficult to get to fail -if- the lock > engages well. > Some production knives will fall into the > not-engaging-well category. You > should be able to eyeball that the liner engages > over far enough to keep > the knife locked open. Cam lock knives seem strong > and able to hold up > under pressure. > > Try visiting a knife store where they will let you > hold various models. > You may end up leaving with more than one new > folder, but at least you'll > have a chance to try out (hold) the knives and take > a very close look at > the lock mech. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:07:17 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith To: eskrimadigest Subject: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are worthless" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mike Castro wrote on the list that "They voluntarily put blinders on. Then, if they get attacked, they often turn to the attitude of, "martial arts are worthless, I'm not wasting my money on anymore of that bunk." IMHO and experience the most of what is taught as "Martial" arts and self defence is worthless for actual self defence. I think what we as life time martial artists sometimes forget is that the average person wants to learn enough to defend themselves not to be competitive fighters. What I consider self defence is being able to get away from a bad situation and it shouldn't take 2 to 10 years to learn how to do that. It should take a month or 2 to train some how to get away. Most of us "lifers" know way more than we need to survive. I tell people if they want to learn an art(they put blinders on) fine sign up for classes but if they just want self defence give me 6 hours a week for 2 months. Waiting for the backlash. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Folders - CRKT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:21:27 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > blade. Does anyone have feedback on this knife? I got it for a whopping $19.00 > so I figure I would take a chance. If I like it I will make a custom Hi-Tek > plastic trainer for it for training. That is the one I recommended. Your price is better than what I got mine for ($25). I think you'll like it. A good basic big strong knife. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "WoodyTX" To: Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:41:51 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Edge video Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey, I'm famous! That's my fat bald arse judging the third event. Too bad there's no sound; I got to use my "Army Voice". Had to watch it a couple of times; I keep losing the connection. I know it's not your website, but putting the entire video up for download might save bandwidth (and aggravation). Things have changed a bit for this upcoming tournament (this Saturday in Austin, see www.edgefighting.com). First off, I'm fighting instead of judging (and I've lost some weight). :) Second, the helmets are the smaller, padded version with the plastic face-shields, so there's more head movement. Third, there are about 20 competitors signed up, so it could be a looong day if you "go all the way" to the finals in each event. Fighters are already signed up from the following schools: Senkotiros in Georgetown, Solis Academy in the Houston area, Arnis de Leon in the Dallas area, Warrior's Way in Wichita Falls, and Martial Way here in Austin. (Sorry if I missed anyone.) Pekiti-Tirsia is big in Texas, and we had hoped for some of their fighters, but haven't heard from them. The event is in a gymnasium setting this year. Stubbs is great, but their stage is high enough that fighters grappling can fall out of view of people in the front rows. We've got two rings running simultaneously, so there should be constant action. There will be a number of retail booths, from Obee's (a local sandwich shop) to ActionFlex padded weaponry. I'm also throwing a party afterwards for all the fighters, volunteers, audience, and anyone else who wants to show up. Send me an email at woodytx@austin.rr.com for the Evite, if you're interested. Party crashers would be advised that there will be a very large group of martial artists present, some of them angry at tournament losses. :\ If you want to make it to the tournament, but are worried about costs, we've got extra room to put you up for the night. I've got a spare bedroom and a couch, and some others in the school have extra room, too. Again, email me at woodytx@austin.rr.com. All in all, it's looking like a great tournament. Hope to see you there, WoodyTX --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are worthless" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:14:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > actual self defence. I think what we as life time > martial artists sometimes forget is that the average > person wants to learn enough to defend themselves not > to be competitive fighters. Probably the average person is just looking for a workout, not "Real" martial arts -or- self-defense training. At least a few studies indicate that. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are worthless" Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree completely - except that while it only takes 2 months to learn, that 2 months will likely be more demanding and more painful than a lot of people are really willing to put up with. But if they don't continue to practice what they learn, then it will not be there if they need it - unless they get attacked very soon after that 2 months. That's what I'm really talking about with hard work and dedication - it's not the time to learn the material, it's the time to retain the material and really keep it at a functional level. That's the time that most of the people I know aren't willing to put in. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "steven ledwith" To: "eskrimadigest" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are worthless" > Mike Castro wrote on the list that "They voluntarily > put blinders on. Then, if > they get > attacked, they often turn to the attitude of, "martial > arts are > worthless, > I'm not wasting my money on anymore of that bunk." > IMHO and experience the most of what is taught as > "Martial" arts and self defence is worthless for > actual self defence. I think what we as life time > martial artists sometimes forget is that the average > person wants to learn enough to defend themselves not > to be competitive fighters. What I consider self > defence is being able to get away from a bad situation > and it shouldn't take 2 to 10 years to learn how to do > that. It should take a month or 2 to train some how to > get away. Most of us "lifers" know way more than we > need to survive. I tell people if they want to learn > an art(they put blinders on) fine sign up for classes > but if they just want self defence give me 6 hours a > week for 2 months. > > Waiting for the backlash. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest