Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:01:50 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #137 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Thanks From 'Just wondering" (Jorge Penafiel) 2. "the martial arts are'nt worthless" (Stef Morley) 3. Rapid Journal (Punong Guro Steven Dowd) 4. Ernest Westbrook replies (steven ledwith) 5. Ryan Model 7 (David Del-Pilar) 6. Re: "the martial arts are'nt worthless" (steven ledwith) 7. thank you Nik! (jason couture) 8. Marketing (Pugil) 9. Self-defense programs (jay de leon) 10. RE: CRKT Ryan Model 7 (Mark F. Ward) 11. Rapid Journal (Punong Guro Steven Dowd) 12. Re: Rapid Journal ? (fwd) (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Thanks From 'Just wondering" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings again!! Special hello to all though busy with daily life chores put time and effort to answer my "uuhhmmm" I wonder post. Many thanks, your wisdom and points very well taken. Hopefully may shed some light to all our readers who love and cares about MA and students. My post to back step briefly stated that; I was wondering why MA schools especially FMA and other hard and aggressive arts like my class attract mostly the young, predominantly men, and the obvious few women and senior men, two big population groups today.. Further, I said that these two same group comprised the largest victims of crimes. Same attendance I noticed in Tournaments and Seminars. Why the less interest from these group to MA, compared to substitute MA newest fad like kick-boxing. Are these people then saying something to us MA instructors, do we need to do something about it or what? Well, the post obtain top billing in the last two digest postings. Appreciate it! More importantly, the notes made sense and gave excellent fed- backs. From the fed-backs received, let me kind of go about them and make consensus which points offered answers to my query above. Fair enough? So, here goes: We have a product-Martial Arts. To sell this product we need qualified well base people, perception, vision, advertisements, and good packaging. At best, the Dojo where our product is sold came from good market and personal research. Since real MA is scary to some, the dojo should offer varying acceptable MA programs/format to child, women and senior men. Instructors must be knowledgeable about his clientele, know their needs, understand sex difference in training capabilities, and etc. That some students do go to MA places just to work out, don't care about putting time, pain, dedication, be proficient, and some wants to learn just enough but not competitive. Others deserved special attention, consideration, dislike having bruises, and don't want to be beaten up. All true to women and seniors as why they shun real MA training. The selling points and concerns above are praiseworthy, some I've used already and help attract people to come seek MA training in our dojo. It's great that some place come out with some programs like cardio-body sculpting, Impact kick-boxing, Tang Soo Bo, etc., gird more as a work-out and not real MA but attract people. Great but we have none of these activities. I know it helps convince some folks to ultimately like the real MA. Now my counter points - the above scenario is a dream dojo for a MA Instructor as well as MA students. However, for a one Instructor small MA class operation like mine it's just too overwhelming. While to some of us MA is not our primary livelihood but rather a second priority activity, a worthy eclectic MA class is good enough for me. I teach modern FMA-Balintawak Eskrima and classical Tang Soo Do with some add-ons for variety and understanding of other arts. My students are aware of this from the onset thus my class remained as is. I am familiar and have adopted most of the above pointers, tried to mix, slow-down, psychology, etc. but the obvious remains-less women and older folks. Children (15 below) not accepted at all. Still a big uuhhmm! Last, regarding my quote about ladies talking about how they feel confident, stronger, and can defend themselves to some extent after short time training with a popular MA fad class, let just say as a lifer MA I heard it not once but many times in TV ads, actual interviews by local press, newspaper, etc. Names not relevant. >From my heart I welcome you all!! Jorge V. Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stef Morley" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are'nt worthless" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:08:41 +0100 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net EBrook wrote .. > Please explain to me exactly what you can >teach in 48 hours that would prepare an adult for a possible >confrontation on the street.    If you're not 100% more prepared after the first lesson then its probably too complex. How many hours does it take to teach someone to stick their thumbs into someones eyes?Even highly skilled, motivated and trained martial artists would struggle with some of the situations you mention, especially where weapons are concerned. Surely anything beyond the most basic and brutal actions taught in a way that even the weakest and least co-ordinated person can master and apply immediatly, and you're straying back into the realms of specialist MA training? Anything beyond about 4 - 6 lessons 2 hours in duration: you're going for a PHD! Thanks for reading, Stef ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSN’s NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Punong Guro Steven Dowd To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rapid Journal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rapid Journal is now on line and ready for business. A good Filipino magazine. www.arnisbalite.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:20:12 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ernest Westbrook replies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "OK, Steve, let's do the math: 6 hours per week times(x) 8 weeks comes out to 48 hours of instruction. Please explain to me exactly what you can teach in 48 hours that would prepare an adult for a possible confrontation on the street. Are you talking about defending against slaps, punches, front chokes, rear chokes, wrist grabs, upper arm grabs, knife slashes, knife thrusts, knife held against the throat from the front or rear, rear garrot attacks, blunt insturment attacks - horizontal, overhead or diagonal slicing from the front, side and rear, not to mention being tacckled and taken to the ground from the front and/or rear? Please enlighten me as to what you are going to teach and hoow you are going to teach it well in a mere 48 hours of instructional time. I am quite curious as to how this gets done in such a short amount of time." First off good reply ,I think we can learn from this type of dialog. :) I don't anyone can be prepared for every specific type of attack , when I first started training in TMA that was the mindset I encountered. But if we look at most violent criminals and street fighters we see that they don't have alot of training but what they do have is a couple of moves and a lot of aggression. Being they veteran of a LOT of ass whuppin's I came to the martial arts looking for self defence, and after my first 6 years of training TMA I still didn't think I was any better off than when I started. To keep this shorter I'll say I was introduced to reality defence , JKD, and FMA and saw the light. Joe Lewis said all you need is about 10 moves and aggression and I agree, he has a good program but personally I like Vunak's street fighting/RAT program for empty hand . I also teach largo knife and using the knife to escape from grabs. Finally gear them up put them under pressure. I my experience this has been the most effective and quickest way to prepare someone for the street. A "refresher" every 6 months or so is all that is needed after that. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "David Del-Pilar" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:34:40 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Ryan Model 7 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jason Couture Like you, I much prefer a hole to a thumbstud. On the Model 7, If you unscrew and discard the thumbstud, you have a hole! While it is not as big a hole as on a Spyderco, I'm a big guy and I find it more than adequate. It is quite a bit bigger than most thumbstud holes. Dave DelPilar _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:47:53 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "the martial arts are'nt worthless" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Exactly, gross motor movements practiced under pressure. --- Stef Morley wrote: > EBrook wrote .. > > > Please explain to me exactly what you can >teach > in 48 hours that would > prepare an adult for a possible >confrontation on > the street. If > you're not 100% more prepared after the first lesson > then its probably > too complex. How many hours does it take to teach > someone to stick their > thumbs into someones eyes?Even highly skilled, > motivated and trained > martial artists would struggle with some of the > situations you mention, > especially where weapons are concerned. Surely > anything beyond the most > basic and brutal actions taught in a way that even > the weakest and least > co-ordinated person can master and apply > immediatly, and you're straying > back into the realms of specialist MA > training? Anything beyond about 4 - > 6 lessons 2 hours in duration: you're going for a > PHD! Thanks for > reading, Stef > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Stay in touch better and keep protected online with > MSN’s NEW all-in-one > Premium Services. Find out more here. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: jason couture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] thank you Nik! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Nikolas Wollenberg - Thanx for the info about the CRKT Ryan 7 thumb studs. I will try to take them off tonight. Take care! ===== **JASON COUTURE** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:07:38 +0100 From: Pugil To: Subject: [Eskrima] Marketing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jorge Penafiel wrote: "FMA schools/seminars/tournaments attracts mostly Young men who are cross MA trainees, and that the most profound point showed was there is none or negligible attraction to Women and Older People. Why the less interest from two of the biggest groups of people in our population and who also happened to be the most victims of crimes???" I'm not sure about other parts of the world but, as far as the UK is concerned, the group of people who are most at risk from stranger-related violence and aggression are YOUNG MEN ­ aged about 15 to 30. Women, as I've said before, are far more likely to be attacked by someone they already know and are more likely to be killed by a partner ­ previous or present ­ than by anyone else. Attacks on the elderly are relatively rare, hence the usual high media coverage when that does happen. When it comes to martial arts instructors running their classes they must decide what it is they most want to achieve. If it's to try to make a living from it then they have to present something that appeals to the masses. This may mean that they have to spend at least some of their time teaching stuff that is either sport, aerobic or dance-related, etc. They may also end up being part of some unethical chain (in my opinion) that signs people up to contracts that are difficult to walk away from. Either that or they will need to be an exceptional and high-profile martial artist, who is prepared to travel the world doing seminars. It really is no good simply bemoaning the fact that people don't want your particular brand of car, for example. Manufacturers realise that people nowadays are a fickle lot and need to be offered something which they perceive as new and exciting. You know why so many people out there flit from one art to another, and then claim that they are training in JKD? It's because they're too bloody lazy to learn a system. Welcome to the world of Americanised fast food martial arts! If you only teach what you think is functional for the street, you will only attract the kind of people who are already quite at home there in the first place. People who go and do an 'Animal Day', or something similar, often find that those most likely to survive in the street do so in that training environment. Others, of a different nature, shall we say, can end up getting nearly as badly beaten up as they would have done in a real fight. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:42:07 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Self-defense programs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The past several years, I have been involved in a wide spectrum of "self-defense" programs, ranging from Bob Wall's WorldBlackBelt America-in-Defense program (training flight crews after 9-11) to Front Sight's martial arts/safety courses, to civilian and law-enforcement programs. Here are some common features/components of self-defense programs: (1) some fitness level - if you want to outrun, outlast and outfight the bad guy. Yes, as some of you have pointed out, even your TaeBo program can contribute to this. (2) gross motor skills vs. fine motor skills - a corollary of "keep it simple." In our laboratory of "realistic training," even experienced fighters stuck to the tried and simple basics during duress. (3) lots of repetition - sometimes to the point of exhaustion; psychologically, these are the techniques that will kick in during combat stress. (4) simulated full contact application of the above - must be able to apply these techniques all out--at a minimum on equipment, ideally against a RedMan or similarly suited instructor, standing and on the ground. (5) weapons familiarization - at the very least, introduce concept of improvised weapons (while on board a flight, can you identify at least a dozen potential improvised weapons?) (6) verbalization - before and during the action. Yell your lungs out during the fight--, kiai, to summon help (for flight crews, the word "help" was part of the technique, because basically they were buying time, and survival, until help arrives), to turn bystanders into witnesses, etc. (7) psychological component - awareness, "escape route mentality," lots of scenario and role playing, etc. (8 legal guidelines - You probably don't have to worry about this one when confronted on board a plane by a terrorist who has already slit an attendant's throat, but otherwise, an important consideration. I believe Animal has posted extensively on this aspect of self-defense. Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Mark F. Ward" To: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:53:06 -0800 Organization: Swerving Atom, Inc. Subject: [Eskrima] RE: CRKT Ryan Model 7 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ...My only dislike is the fact that I > prefer blades with a hole rather than the thumb stud. Unscrew the thumbstud. Et voila! mfw --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:28:02 -0800 (PST) From: Punong Guro Steven Dowd To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rapid Journal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry forgot the address - Rapid Journal is now on line and ready for business. A good Filipino magazine. http://www.rapidjournal.com www.arnisbalite.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:32:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Rapid Journal ? (fwd) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net More Rapid Journal info... Ray ========================================================== Dear Master Terry: Thank you very much for your inquiry. Rapid Journal (52 pp.) is a quarterly martial arts journal published by Taichi Works Publications in the Philippines. It was originally intended to feature articles on internal arts (such as taiji, pakua, aikido, qigong etc.) but it has now expanded to include articles on Filipino martial arts and other martial arts practiced in the Philippines as well. Currently, there are 23 back issues and we have just recently came out with our 24th issue. All back issues are available and it costs US $7.00/issue, this includes shipping. Subscription rate is US $28.00/year (4 issues). You can send international money order payable in US dollars to: Daniel Go 458 Jaboneros St. Binondo, Manila 1006 Philippines My other email address is : ellengo@tri-isys.com Tel. 245-6798 Tel.Fax 2310333. Thank you very much. Yours truly, Daniel Go Rapid Journal/Publisher --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest