Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:01:52 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #146 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Kali (Jared Dame) 2. Re: Re: [Eskrima] Kali (Ray Terry) 3. updating the FMA FAQ (Ray Terry) 4. Apache Knife Fighting (ulfhead@integrity.com) 5. Name Change for a System (Marc Scott) 6. Re: Eskrima digest, Children and Martial arts (anbllc@dslextreme.com) 7. kali arnis escrima (gordon walker) 8. "same,same" (jason couture) 9. Re: Name Change for a System (Ray Terry) 10. what you can teach in 48 hours (steven ledwith) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Kali Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:55:29 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have been in training with the FMA for going on two years and have attended many different FMA seminars where they have called their art Kali, Arnis, or Eskrima. Now no matter what type of named art they taught I have noticed that all the angles/techniques are the same just taught differently or named differently. I have attended a Doce Pares, Dan Inasanto, and misc. schools other than my primary training facility in my home town. ciao, Jared -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Wed 07-Apr-04 14:58 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali > When prospective students inquire of the difference, I do mention that they > are "generally" the same. But that can easily be discredited by any one > training at any length in the fma's.... Schools will teach differently and progress the student differently, granted. But the end product (i.e. after 15 or 25 years of training) looks -fairly- similar. Yes? No? > ... If you go deeper, will someone training in Escrima really say > they are training in Arnis? Will they? Yes, at least I do all the time. When talking to a Filipino/a I sometimes mention that I teach Eskrima. If they get a puzzled look on their face I explain it is Arnis. If they -still- look puzzled I never follow up with Kali as I know they will not be familiar with that term. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1800 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The main difference in his words, was that the term "Eskrima" was used > more in the northern Philippines, "Arnis" in the middle/Visayas, and "Kali" > in the south. We used to have something like this in the FAQ, except it was Arnis in the north, Eskrima in the central area, Kali in the south. But it is probably a bit more accurate to say Arnis/North, Eskrima/Central, Kuntao-Silat/South. Arnis is apparently the term most use in the RP and the one most folks there will recongnize. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] updating the FMA FAQ Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Currently the FMA FAQ has short entries about the following arts. Anyone care to submit a new art, and entry, to the list? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com =================================================================== Babao Arnis Balintawak International Balintawok Black Eagle Eskrima Bohol Method CCEKA Combat Kalaki Arcanis De Cuerdas Defensor Method Derobio Doblete Rapillon Doce Pares Dog Brothers Martial Art Escrima/KunTao/Silat Eskrido Eskrima Estrella F.A.T.E. Filipino Boxing and Dumog Garimot Arnis German Arnis Inayan System of Eskrima Inayan Systems International Inosanto Kali Kadena de Mano Kali Ilustrisimo Kombatan Arnis Kun Tao Silat Kuntaw Lima-Lima Lameco Lapu Lapu Vinas Arnis Lightning Scientific Arnis (Lema Scientific Kali Arnis Organization) Modern Arnis Moro-Moro Style Moro-Moro Orabes Heneral Oido de Caburata Arnis Pananandata Pangamot Pekiti-Tirsia San Miguel Eskrima Sayoc Kali Serrada Escrima SLD (Serrada, Largo Mano, De Cuerdas) Sudlud Eskrima Tapado Toledo-Collado Vee-Arnis-Jitsu Villabrille System Visayan Style Warriors Eskrima Yaw-Yan --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:15:24 -0600 (CST) From: ulfhead@integrity.com Subject: [Eskrima] Apache Knife Fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (1) Is anyone here familiar with Robert Redfeather and his system of "Apache Knife Fighting"? It looks interesting so I wanted to see if anyone here has trained with him or has his dvds and could give me a run down or review. Is he affiliated with DBMA as they refer to themselves as the Ghost Dogs I believe? Thanks. - Tyrkon - --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:21:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Scott To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Name Change for a System Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Though I have studied classical Ilustrisimo with Ray very brielfly I continue to study Ray's personal (as opposed to classical) method and approach and find it far more applicable to the modern world. Some people seem to have an issue that we do this modern method and call it Kalis Ilustrisimo even though it is based on the same principles and concepts. Last month while Ray was in Los Angeles we discussed how name influences attitude. For those of us there it seemed that there has been a natural progression from traditional KI to something different. For that reason perhaps the time had come for a name change. Tactical Grappler was the person who came up with the name and to those of us there it made sense, the name was: KALIS ESCRIMA Kalis refers to two things, the word sword in Cebuan as well it refers to the mother art, Kalis Ilustrisimo, for without that there would be no Kalis Escrima Escrima refers to both the tradtional Filipino martial art as well as the western art of fencing. Ray is a former champion fencing and you cannot help but see the similarities between what he does and fencing. Ray has done a great job of bringing the west and east together in training. So in the future when you here the name Kalis Escrima you know what and why it is. Marc Scott Kalis Escrima Los Angeles Blade Lab http://www.stick-and-knife.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:28:30 -0700 (PDT) From: anbllc@dslextreme.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Children and Martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I know in the past there was a discussion on this subject, but they posting didn't help. So, I want to ask these questions. What is a general or good cirriculum for children in FMA? Can someone give me a good structured format for teaching children. Thanks in advance. Tony --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:35:14 -0400 (EDT) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kali arnis escrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, A lot of info. Im not the most learned person in terms of history and quotes and anecdotes and I find if refreshing to find people that are great when it comes to this type of forum. I just hope this doesnt turn into another cycle of "Just wait!! I have the right answer!!!" If youre still with me, just a question for Heather. When it comes to the 12 subsystems of Kali, is there a grappling component? I dont just mean takedowns and joint locks. Im talking right down on the ground type of stuff. My guro's system has this component and aside from Gat Puno Baet, I havent heard any claim of a Dumog system which has this. My instructor is from the Visayan island of Aklan, so the remoteness of the area might have something to do with the rarity of the art. I guess he would know better than me, EH? Have a great day everybody. Gordon --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: jason couture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "same,same" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi - I'm glad that someone brought up the Kali,Eskrima,Arnis topic because, I grew up learning both sides of the tale (same/different). Some people would tell me that the names all ment the same thing but, then I would read that Kali was the mother art. I've also been told that Kali, Eskrima, Arnis were all different with special attention to different techniques (blade or short stick, long stick, or joint-locks). Now I have to wonder who to trust? ===== **JASON COUTURE** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Name Change for a System To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Though I have studied classical Ilustrisimo with Ray > very brielfly I continue to study Ray's personal (as > opposed to classical) method and approach and find it > far more applicable to the modern world. What is this Ray's last name again? I've lost it. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:54:37 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] what you can teach in 48 hours Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Please explain to me exactly what you can teach in 48 hours that would prepare an adult for a possible confrontation on the street." "You have referenced the Vunak program for empty hand and then a largo knife program for escapes from grabs, but you have not given a single clear example of what you actually teach." This is what I wrote (I also teach >largo knife and using the knife to escape from grabs.) >Most of the "grabs" I have witnessed in real assaults >were of the bear hug from behind variety not wrist >grabs and your knife should be reachable by both >hands,cut the arms and hands of assailent. >Largo/long range knife should be self explanatory. >For empty hand Straightblast, headbutts, elbow and >knee strikes from the clinch. RUN! Iadd two and three >on one "bum rush" attacks for adrenaline since mass >attacks are so common now. And I would have to say that I am really confused about how one can use a knife to escape a grab, if one does not already have the knife in hand at the time of the grab. In my experience when one has been grabbed, there is usually a tug or snatch motion by the assailant. This would make it difficult to draw and use a even a fixed blade knife before being slapped, punched or pulled into a bear hug, not to mention being put into a an arm bar or theown to the ground. I am curious about how you do this. If you do not want to put this information on the forum, you can write me privately. >Finally gear them up put them under pressure. I my experience this has been the most effective and quickest way to prepare someone for the street. How much do you need to escape or survive? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest