Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #157 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Kali/Arnis/Escrima which one came first? (Alex Ercia) 2. Re: Kali/Arnis/Escrima which one came first? (Ray Terry) 3. Bruno Cruicchi and Garrote (jay de leon) 4. Re: Placido Yambao ?/translation (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: translation by Bot Jocano (Felipe Jocano) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:04:23 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali/Arnis/Escrima which one came first? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just for brainstorming purposes, I would like to know if any of you ever heard of Yaming? Back then when I was in the Philippines my teachers Inocencio "Sioc" Glaraga, Tatang and Cristino Vasquez told me that in Panay the term Yahming was the oldest term used for our now called Kalis/Kali, Arnis and Eskrima. They all agreed in different occassions that Yaming was the oldest term for Kali(s)/Arnis/Eskrima. Yaming is still used in the Panay-Negros provinces. To quote Inocencio Glaraga of his vast research of the history of the Philippine warrior arts, The reason why we use the different terminology is because it was the preferred name of the generation. It started with Yaming, then Kalis, Eskrima then Arnis. It is like a wheel turning. One generation feels the proper name to be used is Eskrima the next generation prefers to use Arnis.That is why you will see a symbol of the Universal triangle with a Alibata of K for Kalis in the middle and on each side you will see on each side of the Triangle Arnis/Yaming-kali/Eskrima. This is only for the sake of our brainstorming. I have never heard this discussion outside the Philippines. Inocencio-Siok as we call him is a good source of written knowledge although he is not a great fighter as every arnisador in Manila knows of him. He is a Scholar of the FMA if asked what he knows. He's very knowledgable of the arts. But not a great fighter. He prefers to call his art KALAKI which in he has formulated using Kalis Ilustrisimo as its foundation and other FMA's he has learned from his research of the FMA. Arnisadors from the Philippines might laugh when they hear of Siok because I call him the KWai Chan Cane of FMA. He loves to Anting anting. He is a genius when it comes to the history and principles of fighting of the FMA. Alex Ercia _________________________________________________________________ Lose those love handles! MSN Fitness shows you two moves to slim your waist. http://fitness.msn.com/articles/feeds/article.aspx?dept=exercise&article=et_pv_030104_lovehandles --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali/Arnis/Escrima which one came first? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Just for brainstorming purposes, I would like to know if any of you ever > heard of Yaming? What does the word 'yaming' mean? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:32:44 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Bruno Cruicchi and Garrote Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net With Tom Furman's help, I was able to hook up with Bruno Cruicchi in Miami, Florida over a year ago. I believe Bruno was fortuitously there on business, as well as visiting family. I was conducting a week-long seminar at a hotel, Bruno dropped by after seminar hours and we had the training room all to ourselves. We spent a delightful two hours doing Garrote and arnis. We then repaired to the dining room and spent an equally delightful hour discussing martial arts over beer. I found Bruno Cruicchi a very educated, gracious and cultured gentleman, very knowledgeable about many styles of martial arts and very giving of himself. He mentioned in passing that he had occasion to visit with Gat Puno Abon there in Florida. If you have a chance to train with Bruno Cruicchi in Garrote Larense, I would recommend it. If you are a FMA historian, try the intellectual puzzle of connecting the dots between FMA and Garrote Larense. Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Placido Yambao ?/translation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Jose, Bot --- nephalim1@netscape.net wrote: > Bot, > A fine translation. I could not have said it > better than you. > > Jose > > __________________________________________________________________ > Introducing the New Netscape Internet Service. > Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those > annoying pop-ups. > Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:04:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] translation by Bot Jocano To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net HI Jay, Thanks for the kind comments :-) --- jay de leon wrote: > Bot's translation is fine. Just some musings : > > (1) "...according to Rev. Fr. Gregorio Aglipay who > was also expert in > arnis, in 1872." > > The Tagalog term used was "bantog" which can > literally mean prominent or > well-known. The link between Aglipay (a historical > figure, founder of the > Aglipayan church) and FMA is intriguiing. Was he an > expert arnisador, or > just knowledgeable or "well-known" in FMA circles > then, possibly as a patron > of the arts? Now this is interesting. With all due respect, the church that Aglipay founded, while known colloquially as the Aglipayan church, is known, to give its full title, as the Iglesia Independente de las Islas Filipinas or in English, the Philippine Independent Church. Your question about the link between Aglipay and arnis is interesting - it should provide a focus for someone doing research in that period of Philippine history. > > (2) It would seem to me that logically, pre-Spanish > times or pre-1610, the > terms arnis and eskrima did not exist. There is no > proof presented, though, > that "kali" was the term being used (throughout the > archipelago?). It would > appear even more logical to me that those local > terms mentioned were the > names being used originally, and did not replace > "kali." > This brings up another point. Mirafuente uses the term but judging from the paragraph I quoted and from the rest of the text, it does seem that he does assert that it was used throughout the archipelago. What you raised above is an equally logical argument, given the vast diversity of languages throughout the Philippines. The unfortunate thing here is that Mirafuente did not give any source for his assertion, which may mean he was quoting from oral tradition. Of course, my statement remains to be proven, so it remains a hypothesis. One of my perennial fantasies is to be able to read the original Spanish accounts of the local people when they first came here, watching out for descriptions and word lists pertaining to kali, etc. William Henry Scott did a fantastic job of ethnographic reconstruction in his book Barangay. He based his work partly on Spanish narrative accounts and partly on the dictionaries compiled by the frailes. He read and translated the original documents too. He had a comprehensive chapter on Visayan weapons and combat too. Regards, Bot > Jay de Leon > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail > from any Web page – FREE > download! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest