Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 03:01:52 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #166 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Johnny Chiuten (=?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?=) 2. RE: Johnny Chiuten (=?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?=) 3. Re: RE: Learning A particular style of escrima (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: RE: Learning A particular style of escrima (Ray Terry) 5. lapunti entry? (tenrec@avcorner.com) 6. Another reason why.... (Phil Hurcum) 7. Re Emanuel Hart correction (Bill Lowery) 8. Re: lapunti entry? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:27:54 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Johnny Chiuten Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net it was said that the doce pares bigwigs during that time, thought of johnny as a "spy" for the chinese kung fu community. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:40:24 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Johnny Chiuten Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net my name is john, member of the U.P. Beta Sigma Fraternity, student of GM Johnny Chiuten, under the U.P. Beta Sigma School of Martial Arts, Pronus Supinus system. I also study Balintawak Arnis under Sir Bob Tabimina, last of the students of GM Anciong Bacon. Furthermore, I also study Tetada Kalimasada, an Indonesian form of Energy Martial arts. I hope this satisfies your queries. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:46:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Learning A particular style of escrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Alex and Leo are right. What they had to go through to get instruction was pretty common then and still is now. You didn't just walk up to the teacher and expect to be taught right away just because you were paying him. That would be like buying his art and buying him. I have been fortunate to learn from more than one teacher, and in all cases, I was introduced to that teacher by someone who knew him - a "tulay" or bridge. Just to add this....Years later, I have experienced having been asked to be a bridge to someone I knew. It was then I realized what a great risk my friends took when they referred me to my teachers. Because if the person you referred to them turned out to be a real pain in the posterior, more likely than not they would also get mad at you for bringing these guys to them. So even the guys taking on the role of go-between took on a real risk too. This situation is still the same until now. The rules about crosstraining these days are a bit more relaxed, but still you had to observe certain rules of courtesy. Like not showing off the style you came from if you weren't asked to. Or not teaching the second style you were learning without permission from the teacher. Personal relationships count for a lot if you were wanting to cross train in another FMA style. The situation is different if you came from a totally different martial art, like karateka wanting to train in arnis, or arnisadors wanting to take up judo. There, many arnis teachers are more open, considering how many of the local arnis teachers have had exposure to some other martial art as well as arnis, e.g., boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, karate, aikido, judo, kung-fu, etc. Bot --- Alex Ercia wrote: > To all who do not know, Arnis/Eskrima/Kalis was hard > to learn in the > Philippines. Because the old masters did not just > take you in as a student > just because you were paying for the lessons. You > are lucky if the master > will talk to you. I remember when I was trying to > find for an instructor to > teach me arnis you had to convice the teacher to > teach you. If he did not > like the way you looked, talked, asked, or carried > yourself he would ignore > you. This was my experience. And I am filipino. The > masters would sometimes > say "Hindi ako nagtuturo sa mga kabataan. Dahil sila > ay mapupusok. Gagamitin > lang nila ito sa kalye."-I won't teach the young > ones. Because they are too > aggressive. They will only use it to pick fights on > the streets. > Be thankful that the masters are teaching their art > here openly to get > internationally recognized. I myself once asked Tony > Diego to teach me. He > declined because I am a student under another style. > It is very common. The > Filipino's by nature are careful of who they teach > their knowledge to. > Because some schools feel if you come another school > you will only learn or > steal their secrets and show it to your old school. > Crosstraining was a > mortal sin.(funny but true!) You had to know someone > who is a relative or > close to the master to introduce you and maybe > observe you at first. We call > them NINONG-godfather literally but like a friend of > passage. If the master > trusted your ninong it carried over. This is still > common now a days. > > Alex > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN > Toolbar – FREE! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Learning A particular style of escrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Alex and Leo are right. What they had to go through to > get instruction was pretty common then and still is > now. You didn't just walk up to the teacher and expect > to be taught right away just because you were paying > him. However I also understand that many people, probably younger, are given the chance to study eskrima but decide not to because eskrima isn't viewed in the same way Judo or Taekwondo or Karate-do are viewed. i.e. nice clean white uniforms, an art from another country, etc. Yes? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: tenrec@avcorner.com To: eskrima Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:16:02 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] lapunti entry? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Natahey all! Le Grand Pooh Bah Ray Terry wrote (all hail!) > Johnny asked for 1 year to study arnis, to even out the odds. He went > home to cebu and the first club he went to was the doce pares, where he > was turned down. Was this common back in the day? i.e. turning down someone that wanted to learn a particular style of Eskrima? tenrec: I was told by my teachers (honest!) that not sometimes you had to offer gifts or tributes, or do chores and stuff for the master and his family, all the while trying to convince the master that you've got the "right stuff", and are of good moral fibre etc. On other occasions, it might take a number of visits to the master, with the help of a go-between, each visit a sort of "job interview", before the master decides finally to take you in. The best route (but not always a guarantee) is if you're related to the arnis master. This was almost always a prerequisite (hey blood is thicker than water). -- __--__-- > Lapunti Arnis De Abanico by GM Johnny Chuiten and Master Filemon Caburnay Anyone care to submit a short FMA FAQ entry on Lapunti Arnis de Abanico? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com tenrec: I thought there was one already...thought I read it a couple years back. BTW can anyone post info on styles/schools, or do you have to be on the faculty of that school or style? tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com jtenrec2@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:26:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Another reason why.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net **The Filipino's by nature are careful of who they teach their knowledge to. Because some schools feel if you come another school you will only learn or steal their secrets and show it to your old school. Crosstraining was a mortal sin.(funny but true!) You had to know someone who is a relative or close to the master to introduce you and maybe observe you at first. We call them NINONG-godfather literally but like a friend of passage. If the master trusted your ninong it carried over. This is still common now a days.** Another example of why Punong Guro Edgar Sulite was something else. I don't know why but I really have a bee in the bonnet for Lameco right now. I dug Laban Laro out of the box and watched it again, and again. ===== Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" www.arkangelmartialarts.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:46:02 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re Emanuel Hart correction Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Email address should read LabanB@excite.com ... :-0 Bill --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] lapunti entry? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Anyone care to submit a short FMA FAQ entry on Lapunti Arnis de Abanico? > > tenrec: I thought there was one already...thought I read it a couple years > back. No. No entry for Lapunti Arnis in the FMA FAQ. > can anyone post info on styles/schools, or do you have to be on the faculty > of that school or style? That tends to be the standard, but I don't require people to fax in a copy of their style's photo ID-card in order to submit an entry... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest