Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #168 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: Learning A particular style of escrima (Felipe Jocano) 2. ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training (Sam Bell Jr) 3. Arnis in schools (TenDigitTouch) 4. Kali vs. Kalis (Ray Terry) 5. Re: ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 6. Re: Kali Kalis (Sonny Padilla) 7. FMA FAQ updated (Ray Terry) 8. RE: RE: Johnny Chiuten (=?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?=) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Learning A particular style of escrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, To some extent it's true, but then another factor to consider is that judo and taekwondo are the most organized martial art/sports that I know of (anyone feel free to disagree) in this country. A central HQ, central administration, regular grading, etc. Karate is not as organized under a central administration given the karate styles available, e.g., shorin ryu, shotokan, Okinawan goju-ryu, wado-ryu, kyokushinkai. Of this lot, shotokan is more organized, with a national sport team that is primarily shotokan based. In such a system, you can walk in, ask about the training, and if you really wanted to, join up that night, pay the first month's dues, etc. Arnis is not yet as organized in this way. Most instruction tends to be personalized in nature, from private one-on-one to small group classes. Thus, arnis teachers are harder to find. This tends to discourage people looking for arnis instruction. Side-note to Alex Ercia: Mang Ben didn't have a fixed school anymore in the later years. Mostly, he either taught at his students' schools, or else directly one-on-one. If you're still interested, email me privately. An observation, to which I invite comments - Perhaps the arnis systems with the largest number of students are those more or less organized similar to karate, taekwondo and judo classes - an organized format, standard drills, fixed curriculum, etc. Bot > However I also understand that many people, probably > younger, > are given the chance to study eskrima but decide not > to because > eskrima isn't viewed in the same way Judo or > Taekwondo or Karate-do > are viewed. i.e. nice clean white uniforms, an art > from another country, > etc. > > Yes? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Sam Bell Jr" To: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:15:44 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This past week I got certified in the use of the 21" ASP Baton, by a Monadnock instructor. I personally preferred what training I get with my Arnis as opposed to what I got from Monadnock instructor. Nothing against the instructor, but there was just too much wasted movement's. That is why I really love the FMA's, no wasted movement, just down and dirty, in and out. I showed the instructor some moves and different ways to grip the baton, and after class he really picked asked me allot of questions. He told me that when the stuff hits the fan, I will go with my Arnis training, and that is fine with me. I am just wondering if any other LEO's out there have had a similar experience? Thanks, Sam --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:26:10 -0700 (PDT) From: TenDigitTouch To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis in schools Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi. I was under the impression that arnis (Modern Arnis) is taught in public schools now in the Philippines. Is this still happening? What other styles, if any, of arnis are taught in public schools there? Can someone elaborate? Do you know how the teachers are selected, etc? Thanks. Ray Purdy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Kali vs. Kalis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I checked the list archives. It looks like the name is/was Kali Ilustrisimo as previously indicated. Here is the signature file from a 1994 post by "Arjee", Rey Glang. ======================================================================= Rey Galang (Senior Instructor) Kali Ilustrisimo/Lameco Eskrima/Hagibis "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17 ======================================================================= I find no archive references to Kalis Ilustrisimo until fairly recently. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:35:40 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net SAM: Being one that has a very extensive FMA background, I recently was certified through the PPCT LEO instructor program using the 21" ASP baton as well. Although Im much like you in agreeance that much of the strikes and movements are extremly basic and wasted alike. I have to keep a level of competency in why that Law Enforcement only teaches a very basic level of strikes etc... Most LEO will never commit to any long term training such as Escrima,Arnis, Kali where the use of an impact weapon is the foundation. Most LEO will never commit to any form of training for that matter only a small percentage and anyone who is a LEO will probably agree with me that their peers on the force are lazy and don't like to continue training more than the required alotted time that is offered. So in those realms courses like PPCT and Mandanock have to gear towards those individuals to give just enough training to the average "joe" rather then the skilled or dedicated martial artist who spend many hours a week training. One of my good freinds and fellow martial artist who is a Police Officer and a PPCT instructor who had never been exposed to the FMA until recently in the past year or so, only thought what was taught from the ASP baton course as the gospel truth until he experienced how to deal and use an IMPACT weapon in the matter that FMA allows. He is now having me incorporate as level 2 and 3 training in his re-certification courses to the local LEO's in the community teaching them more FMA rather then what is taught within the PPCT. But as its been explained to me the time an officer pulls the ASP it is less lethal than the firearm but yet used as a form of an intimidating method to halt or stop hopefully any encounter that force may be used. Therefore in that case they by law can only strike the 5 or one of the 5 allowed areas as taught by the instructor during the course. Only if deadly force is an issue are they allowed to use the baton in a manner much like that which is taught in the FMA. He mentioned if deadly force was a concern then in all likliness the officer would draw his service firearm and deal w/ the situation at hand in that manner. So I then asked why not joint locks, takedowns, control methods used w/ the ASP etc....it was told to me that if the officer approached the situation correctly and acted acordingly then the officer should have no problem executing the 5 allowed and designated strikes to drop or stop the opponents in their tracks. Now you and I as martial artist know this is not always gonna happen. What if the gap gets closed and your then being taken to the ground and can't grab your firearm and youstill have the asp I think officers should learn grappling and chokes etc using a impact weapon in times of desperate needs. But im just a civilian who's intentions are not obviously taken seriously and don't know what im talking about...so I don't question what the LEO's learn anymore I just show what they are expected to learn according to PPCT program and thats it.... So Sam I agree with you but until those in ADMIN of the Law Enforcement area are willing to accept the fact they are getting minimal training not much we can do. KORY --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Sonny Padilla" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali Kalis Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:15:04 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Like any organization there bound to be disagreements and that creates factions.The name Kali Ilustrisimo was registered by Master Roobert Morales, Norman Suanico and Pete Reyes. This was sometimes reffered to as the Luneta group including Martin, Romy Macapagal and others. Kalis Ilustrisimo with the book of Mark Wiley was fromed for what is being referred to as the Binondo group headed by GM Tony Diego, Master C. Ricketts, Master Rey Galang, the late Master Edgar Sulite and Maste Yuli Romo. Kali or Kalis Ilustrisimo to me does not really matter. What matters most are the techniques and principles involved and how you are able to apply in a given situation. As to why students are turned down by the great Masters Tatang told me one day on this very question, that why should I teach you those techniques that keep me alive? if you know this techniques then you will be able to make a defense against them and if you come back later for a death challenge than I am putting myself at a disadvantage. That is why not anyone who wants to join the Ilustrrisimo are accepted. You have to have somebody within the organization that can voucher for you like a Ninong before you are allowed. Sonny Padilla Kali Ilustrisimo >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali Kalis >Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:40:13 -0700 (PDT) > > > Kali Ilustrisimo is the name I go by as it was agreed by myself and >Tatang > > when he was still alive. The certificates he signed for his students > > clearly states Kali Ilustrisimo. Kalis Ilustisimo is now the name being > > used by Gm Tony Diego, Maste Yuli Romo, Master Rey Galang , and Master > > Chritopher Ricketts. Other masters like Romy Macapagal, Pete Reyes >Norman > > Suanico, Robert Morales, Ernie Talag and Martin Raganas still go by the >name > > Kali Ilustrisimo. > >Any idea as to why the change? > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] FMA FAQ updated Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net fyi... Three new style entries have been added to our FMA FAQ. Modern Arnis 80 (MA-80), Pronus-Supinus Cadena De Mano, and San Miguel Eskrima Asosasyon of Cebu. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:28:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Melchizedek=20Intong?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: RE: Johnny Chiuten Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Sonny, Glad you've met him, He was a key figure in founding our fraternity's School Of MA. BTW, i also studied Black Secrets under one of his students. Cheers!! John --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest