Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #170 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Arnis in Schools (Clint Cayson) 2. Baton targeting (mark@swervingatom.com) 3. Re: ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training (Pngreiff@aol.com) 4. Re: ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training (DenverAMA@aol.com) 5. re: re: ASP vs FMA training (excalibur921@ctnet.net) 6. Re: Law Enforcement Training PPCT/Mandanock/ASP (Stickfighter87@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:24:39 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Arnis in Schools Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone! You're absolutely correct. During the 70's and 80's Arnis was taught in schools in fact it was not an option during that time. I was one a student (way back 1970's) from a public school in Mindanao... Moro-moro and doce pares are the traditional and common. As far as I know. Grade school students and high school students are the primary concern during that time. We even had big presentations with hundreds of kids (like the Olympic opening ceremony) during athletic competitions for different regions of Mindanoans every year for almost 15 years. Arnis was part of that competition too. I also heard that some of my old classmates are teaching the traditional Arnis in four parts of Mindanao in different schools. One person I know (still now) teaching Arnis in Iligan Institute of Technology in Mindanao and he is teaching the traditional Arnis and Kaliwat ( kins ) Lapu-lapu Arnis (his club). Modern Arnis was used to be taught in the major Colleges in Manila ang nearby provinces on 70's to 80's. Now is just taught as College Student Club not elective PE like it used to. May be some school still used Arnis but not Modern Arnis in particular. And how to pick a instructor, well is the same as they promote you to be a black belt, then you can teach Arnis before, like I did on 1978, I was tested by Senior Blackbelt Willy Annang, my Certificate is signed by Professor Remy Presas before I even become a Blackbelt. I know this is not happening now. Like other MA Arnis is only found in small student Arnis Club. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:58:46 -0700 From: mark@swervingatom.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Baton targeting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here are a couple of links dealing with Monadnock's law enforcement baton training, specifically target selection. The first link shows their color-coded target area chart as well as their "resistance-response" model: http://www.trainingcouncil.org/mptc/uof3.html The second link features a tres chic padded suit that mimics the chart: http://www.trainingcouncil.org/mlp/mps/index.html mfw --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Pngreiff@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:36:38 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Having sucessfully completed both the ASP, and Monadnock baton courses its my belief the ASP curiculum is by far superior, and some how looks awful similar to introductory FMA materials............... The basic strikes follow: The "X" pattern with 45 degree strikes a horizontal "clearance" strike for a return from strong side techs rapid opening strike "X" type closed mode punyo type strikes fist load strike All use what ASP calls a "Forgiving Technique" theorum vs. pinpoint shots. This becomes real apparent exactly "why" when you are dealing with the aggressor in the red man suit and motor skills diminish. Yes there are better ways to hit, but training and the preconceived notion of "you're gonna teach me?" stymies a lot of instructors. Use of force models preclude most really decisive FMA type stick shots from being taught based on threat neutalization using minimum force necessary. ( I know the groups response here) Cordially & respectfully, Pete Reiff --__--__-- Message: 4 From: DenverAMA@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:58:43 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] ASP Baton Training VS Arnis Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you Pete~ > Having sucessfully completed both the ASP, and Monadnock baton courses its > > my belief the ASP curiculum is by far superior, and some how looks awful > similar to introductory FMA materials............... > > The basic strikes follow: > The "X" pattern with 45 degree strikes > a horizontal "clearance" strike for a return from strong side techs > rapid opening strike > "X" type closed mode punyo type strikes > fist load strike > > All use what ASP calls a "Forgiving Technique" theorum vs. pinpoint shots. > This becomes real apparent exactly "why" when you are dealing with the > aggressor in the red man suit and motor skills diminish. > > Yes there are better ways to hit, but training and the preconceived notion > of > "you're gonna teach me?" stymies a lot of instructors. > > Use of force models preclude most really decisive FMA type stick shots from > > being taught based on threat neutalization using minimum force necessary. ( > I > know the groups response here) > > Cordially &respectfully, > > Pete Reiff --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:56:27 -0500 From: excalibur921@ctnet.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: re: ASP vs FMA training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There was a very good point made, regarding taking the FMA training to another level with LEO, in that combining stick movement with bone grappling(joint locks) etc. However, I always understood that PPCT also trained in joint locks and pressure point control, hence PPCT..... pressure point control tactics. I could be wrong as I have not trained in PPCT, nor am I a LEO. But I am very interested although I am not a LEO I do work at times as an armed security guard for some local events. Hello, to all of my CSE friends out there. Hope you and yours are all well. To everyone, train hard, never quit. To those in Illinois/ Missouri area, dont be strangers. Respects to all, guro mike --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:10:34 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Law Enforcement Training PPCT/Mandanock/ASP To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree that so many Police, Security, Corrections officers are at high risk of law suites. That is not a secret, in fact I can relate when that subject comes up which in short is why I no longer work in Law Enforcement. However what I was speaking of in terms of teaching Defensive Tactics to said agencies like a Juvinille Detention, State Penitentary, Auxillary and Full time Police-City, County alike. I've been doing this for around 3 yrs now and I have just noticed how no matter which service or branch whether its a re-cert class or a new recruit class it never fails to get the wise a** person who plays around or comments unjustly which just irratates me severly. Mostly I get it with the newbies. Those that have been in the field a while some know how to respond to situations from experience but still thiers a "by-the-book" reference they should follow which is why the PPCT (pressure point control tactics) course is regulated by State Law to be taught to Law Enforcement Officers. I don't know the required states that learn PPCT and which states learn another system like Madanock or others. But in INDIANA every Law Enforcement agency must be certified through PPCT program that the ILEA (Indiana Law Enforcement Academy) teaches under Dr. Paul Whitesell. This course covers Surviving edged weapon attacks, empty hand pp control, ASP impact weapons use, steps of force, surviving ground attacks, advanced ground manuevers, Firearm retention, and awarness training. THese are the basis of PPCT course. I just find many of those in Law Enforcement to be quite erogant and cocky but hey I guess if they werent they wouldn't be in the position thier in..... KORY --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest