Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #172 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re:PPCT / ASP & LEO Training (Kevin Davis) 2. Re: Crossfit.com and FMA (Leabo) 3. Use of Force Training (Ray Terry) 4. that's why we have 2nd ammendment...support it! (Q) 5. RE: Clint Cayson's Arnis in Schools (jay de leon) (Clint Cayson) 6. Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article (jay de leon) 7. RE: that's why we have 2nd ammendment...support it! (Leo Daher) 8. on topic (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Kevin Davis" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:56:00 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re:PPCT / ASP & LEO Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Mike & Kory, I'll "de-lurk" for a moment to address a couple of issues. As a PPCT Instructor/Trainer, ASP Instructor, Inayan Eskrima instructor and LEO Trainer I'd like to way in... Yes, some LEO's and LEO Trainers can be arrogant and closed minded. I have been to international seminars where fist fights almost broke out between folks with a difference of opinion. At one seminar some trainers of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA were treated terribly by some, including some board members in the organization, just because they disagreed with the course content. Sounds like some martial arts competitions and seminars doesn't it? Anytime you get egos together this happens IMHO. As far as PPCT goes... Suro Mike Inay was a friend and instructor to Bruce Siddle executive director of PPCT. The "original" Spontaneous Knife program was a gift from Suro Inay to Bruce Siddle. Some elements of the baton program are FMA related as well. I have used my FMA in my LEO instruction. Nothing like showing a Dog Brothers tape to show power development and what it's like to hit hard! If FMA instructors want to instruct LEO's they would be best served to learn about the Supreme Court case Graham v. Connor and police use of force. In this case the SC set parameters for non-deadly force. The standard is "objective reasonableness." That said, intentional baton blows to the head and other FMA strikes that may cause serious bodily harm, are considered "deadly force." Most LE agencies start with baton strikes to large muscle masses (inside/outside of the thigh, back/top of the calf, mound of the forearm, etc...) and escalate from there. Lurking mode back on... Mabuhay ang Inayan Eskrima! KD > I just find many of those in Law Enforcement to be quite erogant and cocky > but hey I guess if they werent they wouldn't be in the position thier in..... > > KORY --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:54:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Leabo Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Crossfit.com and FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I swear by crossfit and alot of guys I train with in Brazilian jiu-jitsu circles use it as well. The workouts always change so it does'nt get boring and the functional stretgh results from the training are the best I've experienced. When looking at the daily WOD (workout of the day) don't forget there is a warm up to do before. Try it for a month you'll be a different person. --- "Ralph G." wrote: > Does anyone here supplement their FMA training with > the workouts provided at www.crossfit.com? > > The site claims to provide the best in strength and > conditioning for sport activity, especially physical > activity related to martial arts and law > enforcement. They use an array of exercises > including bodyweight conditioning, Olympic lifting, > kettlebells, gymnastics and running (sprints > mostly). > > I was curious as to whether anyone has seen positive > results by using Crossfit.com for their FMA > training. > > -Ralph > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Use of Force Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Reasonable Use of Force Trainer Certification Join us July 19-24, 2004 for the 23rd Annual National Law Enforcement Training Center Reasonable Use of Force Certification Seminar for Law Enforcement, Corrections, Military and Security Trainers. Sponsored by the Kansas City, Missouri, Police Department - Richard D. Easley, Chief of Police. These trainer development courses are designed to improve instructional and physical skills and understanding of legal and medical implications in control and defensive tactics. *** Comprehensive Control/Defensive Tactics Curriculum *** This 48-hour seminar includes the following courses taught by the nation's top use-of-force trainers: Control/Defensive Tactics - 16 hr. Handgun/Long Gun Retention/Disarming - 16 hr. Medical/Legal Implications - 8 hr. Power Handcuffing - 8 hr. Arm Control/Escort System - 8 hr. OC Aerosol Control/Defense - 8 hr. The New Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint - 16 hr. Travel Defense System (TDS) - 8 hr. Trainer Development - 8 hr. Knife Defense/Disarming System - 8 hr. Ground Defense/Control Tactics - 8 hr. Monadnock Control Device & PR-24 - 16 hr. Monadnock/CAS/Generic Expandable Baton - 8 hr. The NLETC invites your trainers to become certified to teach your officers how to control subjects safely and effectively with proven life-saving dynamic techniques. For more information, call, e-mail or visit our website. This training meets Missouri P.O.S.T. approved continuing education requirements and is P.O.S.T. approved through the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department. Sincerely, Jim Lindell, President National Law Enforcement Training Center email: nletc@kc.rr.com voice: 1-800-445-0857 or (816) 531-2447 web: http://www.nletc.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:33:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] that's why we have 2nd ammendment...support it! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "PATTANI, Thailand - After battling authorities for months, the Islamic militants needed guns. Is one government's militant another people's freedom fighters? Did the British think George Washington was a terrorist? In any event in America our founding fathers gave us the 2nd ammendment to the US Constitution. It helps to protect the rest of the rest of the Constitution. Support the NRA and its arm http://www.nraila.org/. If you have an extra dollar sent it to them. American Hunter magazine (page 10 may/04) says Presidential candidate Kerry voted 51 out of 54 times in the Senate to directly effect your second ammenment rights? --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:41:06 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Clint Cayson's Arnis in Schools (jay de leon) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, As far as my mind keep me from forgetting... Iligan City, Cagayan De Oro, Bukidnon, Davao, Zamboanga and Surigao are the cities I know of. I can't remember what programs they were teaching us that time but kuntao wasn't part of the training because I was once a student of kuntao (currently not practicing anymore) while I was in 4th grade in Cebu City before my parents moved to Iligan City and don't know "silat" that time also. As far as I recall, the styles are more on Doce Pares (2 sticks) because our instructor was from Mandaue, Cebu. I can't remember his last name but he was very familiar all over Visayas Province. It is more Visayan influenced rather than Muslim's but they included the use of "kris" for advanced practitioners while wearing those white bands on the head, knees, elbows and forearms. Depicting as they were "naghuhurumentados". Basic forms of Doce Pares and Moro-Moro are part of the curriculum that time for public schools (grade schools and high schools). Every grade level you go, "Olisi" training (as what old folks told us...) was included. But in high school, we have to pick one subject between the 2 - YDT: youth development training or Arnis (of course I picked the latter). I can't remember if there was a commercial training for it. I hope this help. --------- Can you tell us what cities, towns or provinces this took place? I did read that you mentioned Iligan City. Would you characterize these programs/styles as more northern or Visayan, versus Muslim influenced? Also, during this time, did you see any silat or kuntao, whether as part of the school programs or in commercial form? Thanks, Jay de Leon --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:07:30 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Marc : "The word “kali” did not come about until about 20 >years ago and seems to have been coined somewhere, >sometime by Filipinos living in the USA. Very relevant articulation by Master Romy Macapagal. It connects a few dots on the "Kali" issue itself, as well as the Kali vs Kalis question. Again, just a few thoughts : (1) The term "coined" is probably a bit of an overstatement. We know that at least Placido Yambao's book predated the U.S. Filipinos use of the word. I guess we can say they either re-discovered, adopted, embraced the use of, or promoted the term kali. Some (Jocano, et.al.) have suggested that Placido Yambao must have gotten this from somewhere, and do not attribute the origin of the word to him. (2) GM (Grand Tuhon) Leo Gaje is one of the proponents of Kali as an indigenous art, existing a long time ago, not sure whether on a tribal basis or throughout the archipelago (I am the one not sure, not GM Gaje.). So it seems logical that he would have influenced Tatang on this issue. Again, just the usual disclaimer that this is not to fuel (re-refuel ?) the arnis vs. kali debate but an ongoing academic (albeit unscientific?) look at any observable, verifiable facts related to the issue. Thanks, Marc. Hope to hook up with you somewhere again--L.A., Las Vegas?? Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] that's why we have 2nd ammendment...support it! Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:36:05 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kerry is as anti-gun as can be. Last year, he stated that he'd "rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA" ( the NAACP had launched a series of lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, trying to blame them for the misuse of their products by criminals). He also said he would "never pander to the extremist NRA for personal or political expediency. I will beat the NRA." Well, the NRA has over 4.3 million members - men and women from all walks of life who, unlike the collectivist Kerry, believe in the individual right to self-protection. I hope he finds out, like Gore did in 2000, that alienating law-abiding gun owners is not a smart political move. (I love empty hands, blades and sticks, but IMO, nothing beats a firearm for serious life preservation).    ----Original Message Follows---- From: Q Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] that's why we have 2nd ammendment...support it! Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:33:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) "PATTANI, Thailand - After battling authorities for months, the Islamic militants needed guns. Is one government's militant another people's freedom fighters?  Did the British think George Washington was a terrorist?  In any event in America our founding fathers gave us the 2nd ammendment to the US Constitution.  It helps to protect the rest of the rest of the Constitution.  Support the NRA and its arm http://www.nraila.org/. If you have an extra dollar sent it to them.    American Hunter magazine (page 10 may/04) says  Presidential candidate Kerry voted 51 out of 54 times in the Senate  to directly effect your second ammenment rights? _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] on topic Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Okay folks. I'm as pro-gun as they come, but lets try to stay on topic here. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest