Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #175 - 1 msg X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article (Felipe Jocano) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 22:35:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jay: I must have missed something in the ED since your subject title is Marc Scott's post of Mr. Romy Macapagal's article. Is this the one that appeared in the latest issue of Rapid Journal? Since you quoted me below, I should add that in Yambao's book, the chapter on the history of arnis was actually written by Buenaventura Mirafuente, one of Yambao's students. I am still curious as to where Mirafuente may have gotten the term itself, since this book is, as far as we know, the earliest publication on arnis. An examination of the said chapter does not show where he got this term from. No bibliographic reference, no reference to interviews, not even a hint if this was stock knowledge at the time. Just the blanket statement itself. Now, to add another perspective as far as comparative linguistics is concerned, I recently talked to one of my senior colleagues from the College of Arts and Letters here in the University of the Philippines. He is an Ibanag (an ethnolingustic group in the northern Philippines) and also spoke Ilokano and Pangasinense, and he told me that in their area, the old folk used the term kali to refer to martial arts in general and if I remember right, to fighting with weapons (note disclaimer - if I got him right :-)). This seems in line with the list of terms used by Mirafuente in his chapter, and especially the list of terms used at the end. BTW, those terms are also used in the paragraph I posted earlier. Sooooo, back to the question: Where did Mirafuente get the term kali from? I don't know - but I would be interested to hear from Ilokano, Ibanag and Pangasinense speakers on this list if that is the term used in their areas, and how commonly used is it. Also related terms, as Mirafuente mentions a number of them. Your comment about the US Filipinos use of the term kali interests me since it seems like a worthwhile topic of interest to anyone doing research on oral history in the US. Particularly on the lives of early US Filipinos and especially the FMA masters who immigrated there. Anyone wanting to take it up academically? Bot --- jay de leon wrote: > Hi Marc : > > "The word “kali” did not come about until about 20 > >years ago and seems to have been coined somewhere, > >sometime by Filipinos living in the USA. > > Very relevant articulation by Master Romy Macapagal. > It connects a few dots > on the "Kali" issue itself, as well as the Kali vs > Kalis question. Again, > just a few thoughts : > > (1) The term "coined" is probably a bit of an > overstatement. We know that > at least Placido Yambao's book predated the U.S. > Filipinos use of the word. > I guess we can say they either re-discovered, > adopted, embraced the use of, > or promoted the term kali. Some (Jocano, et.al.) > have suggested that > Placido Yambao must have gotten this from somewhere, > and do not attribute > the origin of the word to him. > > (2) GM (Grand Tuhon) Leo Gaje is one of the > proponents of Kali as an > indigenous art, existing a long time ago, not sure > whether on a tribal basis > or throughout the archipelago (I am the one not > sure, not GM Gaje.). So it > seems logical that he would have influenced Tatang > on this issue. > > Again, just the usual disclaimer that this is not to > fuel (re-refuel ?) the > arnis vs. kali debate but an ongoing academic > (albeit unscientific?) look at > any observable, verifiable facts related to the > issue. > > Thanks, Marc. Hope to hook up with you somewhere > again--L.A., Las Vegas?? > > Jay de Leon > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with the new version of MSN > Messenger! Download today - > it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! 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