Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:54:05 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #177 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Dog Brothers Summer Gathering of the Pack (Marc Denny) 2. Strange request (M. R. Williams) 3. RE: Arnis in Mindanao (Jay De Leon) (Clint Cayson) 4. Knife in Combat: Iraq (Marc Denny) 5. Hand to hand in Iraq (WoodyTX) 6. Re: Bot on the Romy Macapagal article (Felipe Jocano) 7. Re: Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article (Felipe Jocano) 8. Re: Bot on the Romy Macapagal article (Felipe Jocano) 9. Gm Canete seminar (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Strange request (rggeE O.) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:38:24 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Dog Brothers Summer Gathering of the Pack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Gathering of the Pack A Howl of Greeting: The rhythm of the seasons is with us and its time --the Sunday before the Fourth of July -- for the "Summer Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack". On behalf of the Council of Elders of the Dog Brothers, Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts hereby cordially invites you to its "Dog Brothers Summer Gathering of the Pack" at 11:00 AM on Sunday, June 27, 2004 at the RAW Gym in El Segundo to conclude when the fighters are done. Many of you may remember our Gatherings held in the park in Hermosa Beach, which, although they were hosted at considerable expense, were always free to you our friends, our guests. However with a private facility involved we now need to charge admission of $10. We ask that you still consider yourselves to be our friends and our guests. In this context we ask that you respect our wishes in the matter of Video. It is very simple: NO VIDEO CAMERAS, NO DUAL PURPOSE CAMERAS (i.e. with both still photo and video capabilities). THIS MATTER IS OF IMPORTANCE TO US! And, if you see someone videoing, please don't let them abuse our hospitality-please let us know. As always, you may take photographs for personal, non-commercial use PROVIDED you give us a complete set of the ones you take. Thanks to the increasing numbers of you who actually remember and bother to do this! It is very much appreciated! The Magic Words: The MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be friends at the end of the day. This means our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital. Our goal is that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way! Real Contact Stickfighting is Dangerous and only you are responsible for you. Protect yourself at all times. All copyright belongs to Dog Brothers Inc. CA law applies." This matter of accepting the risk applies to those of you in the crowd too. For example, sticks, and fights for that matter, may go flying into the crowd. Parents should consider things like this in deciding whether a child is old enough to bring along and/or deciding on from where to observe the event. For example, sitting on the heavy bags ringing the fighting area is a really risky idea for a child (or adult for that matter). If a stick or a fight comes careening your way-get out of the way! At each Gathering there is a different focus. At this one again we will be encouraging people to fight 2 against 2 or 3 against 3 (or 2 against 3?) in the knife fighting. This was a bit of a disaster last time with all players repeatedly getting killed so we will try going about this a bit differently this time. Remember that you may fight with weapons other than a stick if you can find someone willing to go against you. Please consider stick and knife (aluminum blades OK with us) fights, staff fights, and anything else. In order to more deeply explore certain variables, fighters may agree to "no grappling" rules. In staff fights, the fighters may wear wrestling type ear guards under the fencing masks. There is no charge for fighters but FIGHTERS MUST PRE-REGISTER, even if they have fought before. The Fighter's Registration form can be found on the website. If you are a member of the Dog Brothers tribe an email or phone call will suffice. For all Fighter Registration matters, please contact Cindy at Prettykitty@dogbrothers.com 310-540-6853. You are not pre-registered until your name appears on the list of registered fighters on the website!!! If you have fought before and show up without having pre-registered there will be a $20 fee. We REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't like having to deal with this on such a busy day so please do both you and us a favor and pre-register. If you haven't fought before and you show up without having pre-registered, you will not be allowed to fight. This will be ruthlessly enforced! "Higher Consciousness through Harder Contact" Crafty Dog Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers PS: To get in the mood, check out our 4 minute "Promo Clip" at http://www.dogbrothers.com We've put some work into it. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "M. R. Williams" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:32:02 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Strange request Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, I have a strange, though still Eskrima related, request. I am wondering how to say, in Tagalog, "Got Eskrima?" I am looking to get a bumper sticker made and I figured that I would at least try to be a little original. Any assistance you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Peace, Matt _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:56:11 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Arnis in Mindanao (Jay De Leon) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From my own experience, martial arts training in the Muslim regions of Mindanao tended to be "hands on"--Armalite, shotgun, .45, paltik, kris, kampilan, etc. Jay, You are correct. Martial Arts in Mindanao are somewhat an adjective to some people because of the situation in those regions. In my opinion, we have to learn how to use guns instead of our hands and sticks for that matter. But one person I know that he is still teaching that ART. I called of my relatives in Iligan City form some information and they told me that my classmate (way back in grade school) teaches at his home "Cañete's Style", "Sayoc's Kali", "Yaw-Yan" and traditional form of Arnis - what they call it "Kaliwat Lapu-Lapu". I am not really sure if that style is known to others. That's about it - my 2c info. Thanks. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:31:47 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Knife in Combat: Iraq Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Salvadoran soldiers praised for Iraq role By Denis D. Gray ASSOCIATED PRESS NAJAF, Iraq - One of his friends was dead, 12 others lay wounded and the four soldiers still left standing were surrounded and out of ammunition. So Salvadoran Cpl. Samuel Toloza said a prayer, whipped out his knife and charged the Iraqi gunmen. In one of the few known instances of hand-to-hand combat in the Iraq conflict, Cpl. Toloza stabbed several attackers swarming around a comrade. The stunned assailants backed away momentarily, just as a relief column came to the unit's rescue. "We never considered surrender. I was trained to fight until the end," said the 25-year-old corporal, one of 380 soldiers from El Salvador whose heroism is being cited just as other members of the multinational force in Iraq are facing criticism. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said recently that the Central American unit has "gained a fantastic reputation among the coalition" and expressed hope that the Salvadorans will stay beyond their scheduled departure. Phil Kosnett, who leads the Coalition Provisional Authority office in this holy Shi'ite city, says he owes his life to Salvadorans who repelled a well-executed insurgent attack on his three-car convoy in March. He has nominated six of them for the U.S. Army's Bronze Star medal. "You hear this snotty phrase 'coalition of the billing' for some of the smaller contingents," said Mr. Kosnett, referring to the apparent eagerness of some nations to charge their Iraq operations to Washington. "The El Sals? No way. These guys are punching way above their weight. They're probably the bravest and most professional troops I've every worked with." The Salvadorans are eager to stress their role as peacekeepers rather than warriors, perhaps with an eye toward public opinion back home. Masked protesters last week seized the cathedral in the capital, San Salvador, demanding that President-elect Tony Saca pull the troops out of Iraq. Mr. Saca, who takes office June 1, has said that he will leave the unit in Iraq until August as had been planned, despite the early departure of Spanish troops, under whom the Salvadorans were serving. The other three Central American contingents - from the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and Honduras - have returned home or are scheduled to do so soon. "We didn't come here to fire a single shot. Our rifles were just part of our equipment and uniforms. But we were prepared to repel an attack," said Col. Hugo Omar Orellana Calidonio, a 27-year-old who commands the Cuscatlan Battalion. The troops, El Salvador's first peacekeepers abroad, have conducted a range of humanitarian missions in Najaf. They have provided books, electricity, playground equipment and other supplies to destitute schools and have helped farmers with irrigation works and fertilizer supplies. "Our country came out of a similar situation as in Iraq 12 years ago, so people in El Salvador can understand what is happening here," said Col. Calidonio, referring to the civil war between the U.S.-backed government and leftist guerrillas that left about 75,000 dead. The military was held responsible for widespread abuses. "We came here to help and we were helping. Our relationship with the people was excellent. They were happy with what we were doing," Col. Calidonio said. Then came April 4, when armed followers of Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shi'ite cleric, seized virtual control of the city and staged attacks on two camps - Baker and Golf - near bases on the fringes of Najaf occupied by the Salvadoran and Spanish units. When Cpl. Toloza and 16 other soldiers arrived that morning at a low-walled compound of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, about a mile from their camp, they found that its 350 occupants had melted away. They also found themselves trapped by Sheik al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. Lt. Col. Francisco Flores, the battalion's operations officer, said the surrounded soldiers held their fire for nearly a half-hour, fearful of inflicting civilian casualties, even as 10 of their number were wounded by rocket-propelled grenades and bullets from assault rifles and machine guns. After several hours of combat, the besieged unit ran out of ammunition, having come with only 300 rounds for each of their M-16 rifles. Pvt. Natividad Mendez, Cpl. Toloza's friend for three years, lay dead, shot twice probably by a sniper. Two more were wounded as the close-quarters fighting intensified. "I thought, 'This is the end.' But, at the same time, I asked the Lord to protect and save me," Cpl. Toloza recalled. The wounded were placed on a truck while Cpl. Toloza and the three other soldiers moved on the ground, trying to make their way back to the base. They were soon confronted with Sheik al-Sadr's fighters, about 10 of whom tried to seize one of the soldiers. "My immediate reaction was that I had to defend my friend, and the only thing I had in my hands was a knife," Cpl. Toloza said. As reinforcements arrived to save Cpl. Toloza's unit, the two camps were under attack, with the Salvadorans and a small U.S. contingent of soldiers and civilian security personnel trying to protect the perimeter and retake an adjoining seven-story hospital captured by the insurgents. The Spaniards didn't fight and only after a long delay agreed to send armored vehicles to help evacuate the wounded. Col. Flores said he cannot question the Spanish decisions that day, but added that the Spaniards "could have helped us sooner." U.S. troops have replaced the Spaniards. Salvadoran officers, many of whom were trained at military schools in the United States, say they're pleased to be working with the Americans. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "WoodyTX" To: Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:09:17 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Hand to hand in Iraq Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "NAJAF, Iraq — One of his friends was dead, 12 others lay wounded and the four soldiers still left standing were surrounded and out of ammunition. So Salvadoran Cpl. Samuel Toloza said a prayer, whipped out his knife and charged the Iraqi gunmen. In one of the only known instances of hand-to-hand combat in the Iraq conflict, Cpl. Toloza stabbed several attackers swarming around a comrade. The stunned assailants backed away momentarily, just as a relief column came to the unit's rescue." Sometimes it's not the training, the techniques, or the tactics. Sometimes raw aggression and anger will get you through an otherwise hopeless situation. The article doesn't mention CPL Toloza's training, but the knife they show in the picture looks like a basic folder. Kurt Schneider --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:20:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bot on the Romy Macapagal article To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jay, Now I know why we > keep you around. LOL! That's very encouraging :-) :-) :-) > Ironically, my late father was from Pangasinan, born > and bred, and so is my > cousin, GM Nes Fernandez who used to teach at Daly > City and South San > Francisco. I believe Kuya Nes is in retirement in > the Philippines, and has > been sighted in Manila, Pangasinan and Baguio City. > If I get a hold of him, > I will pose the "kali" question to him. He is a > highly educated and > knowledgeable martial artist. Now that's interesting. I read a feature about him in an old issue of WushuKungfu magazine, 1993/94 I think. Very nice write-up too. Wish I'd have the chance to meet him one day..... Regards, Bot > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail > from any Web page – FREE > download! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:34:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Marc Scott's post of Romy Macapagal's article To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Sonny, Jay, Gord, After reading your replies, this gets interesting....Mirafuente mentions similar terms such as pagkalikali and kalirongan. Were these terms still in use in the areas you grew up in? Gord, maybe your wife would know these terms? Any Ibanag speakers on this list? My friend said that the term kali was used in the Ibanag-speaking areas.... Since we're discussing the term kali again, I'm seeing something interesting here. You guys have posted so far that either the term means something different in Ilokano (Sonny) or that the Ilokano speakers you know don't know it - and that the term now used is arnis. An example of ongoing language change - as John Chow just pointed out. But then, perhaps the term may not have been replaced completely in all areas - there is always the possibility that in some areas, this term is still being used. Sorry if this gets repetitive (hope its not) but think about this - Mirafuente makes a blanket statement, without citing any sources, so it creates a puzzle here - just where did he get those terms from? Hence my question to the native speakers of those languages I mentioned. If you guys are interested, I'll post here the terms Mirafuente used and their definitions and the best translation I can come up with, and let's see where this discussion leads us. Ok with you? Regards, Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:34:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bot on the Romy Macapagal article To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As I promised Sonny, Jay and Gord, here is Mirafuente's uses of parallel terms ni Ibanag and Pangasinense. The Ilokano term he used is didya - Sonny, maybe you can help me out on this? Mirafuente's definitions, from Yambao, p. 14. Pagkalikali - (Ibanag-buong kapatagan ng Kagayan) - 1.Laro o labang totohanan ng kapuwang may hawak na sandata. 2. Pagpakita sa mga manunuod ng tanging karunungan taglay at kabihasnan sa paggamit ng armas de mano - tabak at balaraw. Rough translation - Pagkalikali - (Ibanag, Cagayan valley/plain) 1. Sport/actual combat with both parties holding weapons. 2. Demonstration for the audience of skill and knowledge in hand-held weapons - sword/bolo and knife/dagger Kalirongan (Pangasinan) - 1. Laro o labanang totohanan ng pagpapakitaan ng dahas ng dalawa or marami sa tanging karunungan, kahusayan at lakas at kung sakaling wala sa kanila makadaig sa dunong ng pananandata ay bitiwan nilang kusa nay sa katawan upang mamihasa sa wastng timbang, tayo, anyo, kilos, bilis, sa harap ng kalaro o kalaban at ng ito'y masindak. Rough translation - Kalirongan (Pangasinan) - 1. Sport or actual combat that shows the skill of two or many in knowledge, skill and strength and if any of them cannot win in weapon skill, they release these..... (there appears to be a missing line in the original Tagalog)... in the body so as to become skilled in the proper weight, posture, form, movement and speed in front of the partners or opponents so as to intimidate them. Jay, you're originally from Pangasinan. Do you still use this term? Guys, translating from one language to another is always a tricky business. So many choices of words and syntax to make. If any of you can provide a better translation, I would be very thankful. Regards, Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 06:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Gm Canete seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net fyi, heard from Gm Cacoy that he'll be teaching a seminar at Ron Lew's school in San Jose, CA. May 15 10AM - 5PM 901 N. 8th St. San Jose, California $50 408.839.8290 --__--__-- Message: 10 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:31:57 -0400 From: "rggeE O." Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Strange request Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net matt, you could try "Pare, Eskrima?" or "Eskrima Pare?" or you might want to add "ko" as in "Pare ko, Eskrima" or "Eskrima Pare Ko?" -- they are the equivalent of "Arnis(Eskrima), anyone?" take note though that these tagalog version imply that you are talking to someone of masculine gender reggei geralde --- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:32:02 From: "M. R. Williams" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: >Greetings all, > > I have a strange, though still Eskrima related, request. I am wondering >how to say, in Tagalog, "Got Eskrima?" I am looking to get a bumper sticker >made and I figured that I would at least try to be a little original. > Any assistance you can offer will be greatly appreciated. > > >Peace, > >Matt > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE >download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest